Author Topic: Cool weather ammo test in the Kadet bullseye gun  (Read 854 times)

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Offline Joe L

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Cool weather ammo test in the Kadet bullseye gun
« on: November 29, 2015, 03:09:49 PM »
I've spent a lot of time at the range over the Thanksgiving holidays.  The original plan was a match on Saturday, the 28th but I was going to shoot the CZ-97 in that match.  Due to holidays and end of the season, we only had a single 900 point match planned.  Weather was pretty miserable all week, with temps at freezing or slightly above, coupled with rain and drizzle.  I practiced with the .45 on Friday, then the match was canceled. 

Weather was still miserable for a match on Saturday morning, so I went out and conducted my own "practice match" and ran through a warmup target and then 3 slow, 3 timed, and 3 rapid fire targets.  But I did so with the .22 Kadet, since I had pretty much neglected it over the prior week and wanted to save my .45 ammo for next year.  Another reason was that I wanted to see what problems I would have had in the match had it not been canceled and if I had shot the .22 instead of the .45.  Results were not good, with plenty of feeding problems due to the ammo becoming weaker with the cool temperature and not cycling the carrier quite far enough back to catch the next round.  I finished the 9 targets, but a match would have been a disaster. 

On Sunday I returned to the range.  Slightly warmer and no rain today, just mist.  Temperature was around 37F.  I brought several high velocity ammo choices today to see if the cold high velocity ammo would have about the same firepower as warm standard velocity.  The answer was yes, some high velocity ammo would cycle the gun in cool temperatures.  I didn't have any CCI Mini-mags with me, but I did have CCI AR Tactical.  I also had some Federal AutoMatch and Aguila Super Extra red box.   The Federal AutoMatch would not cycle the gun consistently and I had a few misfires.  It felt a little stouter than the Norma Tac 22 but not much.  The Aguila Super Extra was still a little stouter but I had to many misfires.  I've had this happen even in warm weather with the Aguila.  Not good enough.

The CCI AR Tactical was much, much stouter AND had no misfires.  So I ran through 60 rounds of the AR Tactical without a single problem.  The ammo was so strong that I would have to re-zero the Kadet for this ammo at 50 and at 25 yards.  Using the usual Norma 25 yard zero and 2" holdover at 50, the AR Tactical hits were a little higher and a little left.  But, most importantly, no failures of any kind.  Accuracy seemed good but I would have to shoot a lot more of it to confirm at 50 yards, maybe even from a rest.  Here is a video of the rapid fire targets.  I can learn pretty much whether the ammo is going to be good to go or not during rapid fire than any other type string, at least as far as how the gun and I are going to react to it. 

 

I was really hoping to video a clean 100 score target but that isn't going to happen without a little more practice with the ammo.  I also want to try some of the standard CCI high velocity Mini-Mags.  I am expecting them to be loaded with the same powder and powder charge but with "better" CPRN bullets. 

I did confirm what I thought based on the practice match on Saturday--cool weather and 22 pistols sometimes result in problems that don't occur at 60F and above.  High Velocity ammo will overcome those issues if the primers are also good.   Cold ammo that becomes weak due to the temperature or marginal primers and one can expect problems.  Not good for a match environment. 

And, yes, I could possibly solve this problem with a weaker recoil spring.  I would have to find one or make one and it might work if the carrier will go all the way back in to battery with the tight Kadet chamber and cool temps.  Switching ammo seems like an easier approach to me right now. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Joe L

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Re: Cool weather ammo test in the Kadet bullseye gun
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 07:52:58 AM »
The CCI website indicates a velocity of 1200 fps for the AR Tactical and 1235 for the CCI Minimag High Velocity.  I think the bullets are the same 40 gr weight but the shape is different, probably to accomodate the S&W MP15/22 cycling requirements.  Good, stout stuff, if that is what you like.  The AR has more free travel before engaging the rifling in my opinion.   

Joe

Edited this post to correct the velocities and comment on the shape of the 40 gr bullet used in the AR Tactical. 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 07:28:19 AM by Joe L »
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Cool weather ammo test in the Kadet bullseye gun
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 02:38:23 PM »
Interesting report.
AND CCI uses Vihtavuori powders in their .22s which 'tends' to burn cleaner than many others.
I wonder what length bbls the speeds are tested in?  CCI MiniMags supersonic from the CZ bbl? 

I believe the CCI Std Velocity (40gr waxed LRN) shot 947 out of my H.S. 5" bbl..  Jan 2014  (cold)