FTE...extractor?

[Chris B]

I've been getting this interesting jam lately.



Sometimes the case faces forward, mostly this way though.

I did a bit of reading and tried the 'extractor test where the round is held in place solely by the extractor against the breech.  My P01 passes just fine but the round in my 97 literally falls out with plenty of wiggle room.

Anyone tried this with their newer 97?

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I've been getting this interesting jam lately.



Sometimes the case faces forward, mostly this way though.

I did a bit of reading and tried the 'extractor test where the round is held in place solely by the extractor against the breech.  My P01 passes just fine but the round in my 97 literally falls out with plenty of wiggle room.

Anyone tried this with their newer 97?

Does the gun have alot of rounds through it? My 75BD would fail to eject at about 10k rnds in a similar fashion. New extractor and spring cured it. They do wear out.

[jwc007]

I would replace the Extractor Spring with a Wolff Extra Power Extractor Spring.

Can't comment on the Extractor itself without seeing it.

Also, from time to time, the Slide Extractor channel does need to be cleaned out.

[Chris B]

It has an extra power spring in it already, and I cleaned the channel out a couple days ago. Considering the round isn't held tightly by the extractor I'm starting to think it's the culprit.

[schmeky]

The 97 does not hold the round tight like a 1911.  If you place a round in the slide, the loaded chamber indicator will push the round out.  This is normal. 

The 97 extractor does not really move so the extractor spring is probably not the issue.  Just looking at the pic I would guess:

1)  case is being extracted
2)  slide velocity is probably to slow
3)  I would blacken the rear of some cases with a permanent marker and look for ejector engraving

My guess is the slow slide speed is allowing the case to barely impact the ejector, or not at all.  If the ejector is not being impacted, the next round in the mag is pushing up on the fired case, again due to improper slide velocity, allowing it to bounce around.  This would explain the reversed case.

[Chris B]

Interesting, thanks David.  I have a couple more recoil springs, maybe I put in one too strong by accident.  Not really sure how to tell the difference though.

BTW didn't CZ upgrade the ejector to a longer design recently?  Mine is just a little nub.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

That ejector sure does look like something is missing. My 97BD is a 2012 model and has an ejector the same as all the other 75 series guns.

[schmeky]

The ejectors (part of the sear cage) have always been very short on the 97, basically just a "nub".  As long as the slide velocity is correct, this is fine.  My personal 97B has this same ejector length and I have run over 8,000 rounds w/o a single issue of any kind. 

Sounds like you're on the right track, you probably installed a heavier spring and if you are running light target loads, then your issue would make perfect sense.  If that slide is smacking back smartly, the case will not have time to dance around and do weird things.

As a suggestion, if you figure out the weight of your RS's, spray a little paint on them for color coding.  Un-coded springs are a pet peeve of mine.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

So I guess they changed the ejector when they did the upgrade to the barrel a couple years back? My 2012 model has a much longer extractor than the nub.

[Chris B]

David, can you share what magic recipe you use with a 200gr SWC?  I'm still trying to find a good powder that operates this without fail.  Tired of it jamming.

[schmeky]

From my log book:

Dardas or Missouri Bullet H&G 200 grain LSWC, 18 brinell
WW231 or HP38 (same powder) 4.8 grains, or
Clays 3.6 grains, or
Ramshot ZIP 4.8 grains
1.240" OAL
.479" crimp

These will all shoot into less than an inch all day long from my 97BE @ 25 yards.

[tdogg]

David, can you share what magic recipe you use with a 200gr SWC?  I'm still trying to find a good powder that operates this without fail.  Tired of it jamming.

Chris,

I had issues figuring out the SWC in my 97BD.  It was a crimp issue but the OAL is just as important.  The OAL should be such that the shoulder of the bullet is 0.03 to 0.04 inches above the case mouth.  Make sure you perform a push test to verify the bullet doesn't push test shorter than this rule of thumb.   I load mine to a distance of 0.935 inches from the case head to shoulder (about .035 inches above the mouth).  At this distance over the case mouth with my bullet the OAL is 1.254 inches.

Here is my thread that discusses all of this:  http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=68170.0

From my log book:

.479" crimp

These will all shoot into less than an inch all day long from my 97BE @ 25 yards.

Schmeky,

I'm assuming this is a typo, should that read 0.469 crimp?

Typical 45 ACP bullet is 0.452 plus 2 x case wall 0.010 equals 0.472 inches.

I crimp my 45 to 0.470 inches.

Cheers,
Toby

[Chris B]

Thanks Toby, David.

I'm using the Lee 200gr mold, it's the best I can do.

Toby I checked my reloads and they are pretty darn close to your specifications except for OAL which is different for the Lee profile.

Really I'm having an issue with extraction more than feeding.  They chamber nicely but as David pointed out the slide isn't coming back far enough for extraction.  Wish I could afford the new ejector cage. 

It's funny, CZ seems to recognize the original 97b had fairly major flaws and has slowly 'corrected' a few over the years.  Two ramp changes, throating, ejector change, (hopefully) metallurgy improvements for locking lugs etc.  Thankfully David knows how to correct the barrel bushing problem.

[Chris B]

Seems Universal is terrible for these 200 grainers...no wonder it isn't listed in my manual.  I switched to Bullseye and most of the FTE went away.  Tonight I discovered it still has the factory ejector spring so I put in the extra power spring and will try it tomorrow.

I'm determined to get this gun working.  I'm sure if I strictly used FMJ all these issues wouldn't exist but I'm not made of money.

[schmeky]

Toby,

Yes, thank you for pointing that out.  Should be .469", not .479".  I knew dropping of the 3rd grade would come back to haunt me some day  . . . . .