InRange VZ58 Mud Test

[sofrosune]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/27/mud-will-always-get-inrange-desecrates-vz-58/
 

[RSR]

Looks like the topcover stripped all the mud off the bolt carrier into the action...  One of my primary guess in CP's thread...  Overall, I'm not a fan of this InRange test, but YMMV...  It is an interesting test, but in any real world use, unless one is in the middle of combat, the moment a weapon dropped into quicksand or similar, one would clean it asap...

Here, the issue was the bolt not going into battery...  Remove the mag, grab a canteen and flush out the forward rails and chamber area.  Run cleaning rod or boresnake through the bore and then get back to testing.  Overall this test design seems shortsighted...  Stuff like sand tests, frost test (freeze, take weapon out to warm up where moisture condensates and freeze again), etc, type of tests seem better measures of reliability beyond the standard round counts between required cleaning, etc, type of tests.

That said, I've been thinking about this and they talked about it in the video text edits too... 
OOW calls the VZ58 striker a "linear hammer"... 
With striker fired pistols, the striker and firing pin is one piece, and often pulling the trigger assists in cocking the striker... 
With the VZ58, it's two piece.  I really think "linear hammer" is a far better description for this action than "striker."  While perhaps it's in the weeds, I think it's important and will be changing my references when discussions arise regarding action type -- for parts, I'll probably stick with striker when discussing the "linear hammer" but either works...  Again, YMMV. 

[TJNewton]

Watched the videos for the VZ, the AK, and the AR.  Interesting results.  It seems to come down what's appropriate to what situation.  I can see that the tight tolerances kept the mud out of the AR and the loose tolerances allowed the mud into the VZ and AK.  But that also has a flip side.  If the VZ or AK jam as demonstrated, it doesn't take much to open them up and clear them -- that, however, takes the gun out of the fight for at least a couple of minutes, which, obviously, could be disastrous.  The AR stays in the fight -- a huge advantage.  But if an AR jams -- and I've seen it more than once -- it's likely that the AR is out of the fight until someone can get it into a vise and start digging in.  That's also disastrous, especially if away from any tools or support. 

So the reliability is relative to the situation.  A jam in the VZ or AK can take someone out of the fight for a couple of minutes, and a jam in the AR can take someone out of the fight for a couple of minutes, a couple of hours, up to forever.  Which time frame is the most lethal?  Again, depends on the situation.

I've been at the range a few times where a buddy's AR decided to seize and was done for the day.  There was never any mud involved.  It then took them a couple of hours at home to fix the problem.  I've had a jam with my SKS and VZ2008 due to bad ammo and the open nature of the bolt allowed me to clear it in a few seconds.  I kept shooting my rifle, and my buddy also kept shooting... my rifle.

The only time I've had a bear of a time with the VZ was when I vigorously attempted to remove the dust cover without first pulling the trigger to release the striker.  What a nightmare that was.  An hour of prying, wrangling, cursing, and a ruined dust cover later, I got the rifle apart.  It was an intimate getting-to-know-you time with the VZ platform.

Citizen Pete has a good tactical class report in this forum from a couple of years back relating some of the problems his classmates with AR's had in comparison to the problems he didn't have with his VZ.

[Horse]

It's not tolerances - it's clearances.


But yes - not a lot of clearance in some rifles - makes them choke fairly easily if stuff gets inside.  The fantastic part of the AR design is the almost totally sealed system as long as the dust cover is closed and fairly closed when it's open.

[Grendel]

One thread is enough.