Project poor mans open P09

[Joe L]

Dave,
I'm looking forward to your results with the major power factor loads.  All I've shot is minor 115 gr in mine...but they are good out to 200 yards.   
Joe

[ThompsonCustom]

Thanks for the update Dave33 looking forward to your load developments.

[jameslovesjammie]

Shot my first major PF loads, though not many and on the lower side of major. 

Care to share bullet weight and velocity?  I'm not looking for data, just curious what you were running.

[dave33]

No problem sharing data.  The two loads that saw low major velocities were 7.3gr hs-6 under a 124gr Precision Delta JHP, and 6.1gr Autocomp under the same bullet. They both averaged about 1320FPS but the higher velocities in those ranges were right at 1335 FPS, so technically a few were major loads.

A few other interesting loads were with light weight bullets. I found 7.2gr of Autocomp will push a 90gr JHP an average of 1568 FPS, 8.84gr Accurate #7 will push that same little bullet 1578 FPS, and they both will hold about a 2" group at 25 yds if I do my part. 9.1 gr Accurate #7 under a 100gr heavy plated RN runs an average 1378 FPS and is very accurate as well. All of these light bullet loads are just silly soft shooting. Still have lots of other loads to try out.

Disclaimer: these are my results in my gun after careful work up, are probably not found in any reloading books, could be potentially dangerous, please be careful. It sure is fun though.

[ThompsonCustom]

The more powder you have the more you can work the comp and evenly you'll find a sweet spot were that thing shoots really flat. Since you have a nice variety of bullets and powder you don't even need to make major to get the same comp effects, just use a lighter bullet and a slower burning powder.

I'm actually in the same stage as you testing a comp right now, different comp and different gun(still a CZ tho) but i've been running some test loads through quickload and the powders i've been testing so far are power pistol and autocomp but I also worked up some loads with AA#7 (incase I find some) and lighter bullets.

I'm not sure you can even fit enough aa#7 in a case to cause issues depending on how fine of a powder it is but with a 100gr bullet I believe you can work yup to about 11gr's depending on OAL and chronograph results if you need more gas to work the comp more, another thing if you have magnum primers it wouldn't be a bad idea to switch to those for a better burn.

[dave33]

The more powder you have the more you can work the comp and evenly you'll find a sweet spot were that thing shoots really flat. Since you have a nice variety of bullets and powder you don't even need to make major to get the same comp effects, just use a lighter bullet and a slower burning powder.

I'm actually in the same stage as you testing a comp right now, different comp and different gun(still a CZ tho) but i've been running some test loads through quickload and the powders i've been testing so far are power pistol and autocomp but I also worked up some loads with AA#7 (incase I find some) and lighter bullets.

I'm not sure you can even fit enough aa#7 in a case to cause issues depending on how fine of a powder it is but with a 100gr bullet I believe you can work yup to about 11gr's depending on OAL and chronograph results if you need more gas to work the comp more, another thing if you have magnum primers it wouldn't be a bad idea to switch to those for a better burn.

One thing about Accurate #7, until you get pretty high in the load range it leaves a lot of unburned powder granules from breech to muzzle.  Probably right about not being enough room in the case to get into trouble, Ive heard of guys cramming a bullet on a full case of powder and have the round "grow" to be too long to fit the barrel.  And thats another thing Im sure you are aware of, CZ's have such short throats there are limits to what can be "safely" loaded unless the throat is reamed, which I dont plan to do.

If you can find some, HS-6 is a very popular major load powder.  It shows good promise in my limited use so far. 

What gun and comp are you loading for?  If you say a Czech Mate that will make me jealous and I will have to hate you.

[ThompsonCustom]

The more powder you have the more you can work the comp and evenly you'll find a sweet spot were that thing shoots really flat. Since you have a nice variety of bullets and powder you don't even need to make major to get the same comp effects, just use a lighter bullet and a slower burning powder.

I'm actually in the same stage as you testing a comp right now, different comp and different gun(still a CZ tho) but i've been running some test loads through quickload and the powders i've been testing so far are power pistol and autocomp but I also worked up some loads with AA#7 (incase I find some) and lighter bullets.

I'm not sure you can even fit enough aa#7 in a case to cause issues depending on how fine of a powder it is but with a 100gr bullet I believe you can work yup to about 11gr's depending on OAL and chronograph results if you need more gas to work the comp more, another thing if you have magnum primers it wouldn't be a bad idea to switch to those for a better burn.

One thing about Accurate #7, until you get pretty high in the load range it leaves a lot of unburned powder granules from breech to muzzle.  Probably right about not being enough room in the case to get into trouble, Ive heard of guys cramming a bullet on a full case of powder and have the round "grow" to be too long to fit the barrel.  And thats another thing Im sure you are aware of, CZ's have such short throats there are limits to what can be "safely" loaded unless the throat is reamed, which I dont plan to do.

If you can find some, HS-6 is a very popular major load powder.  It shows good promise in my limited use so far. 

What gun and comp are you loading for?  If you say a Czech Mate that will make me jealous and I will have to hate you.

That's a secret

Not really its a sp-01 shadow with a glock maverick comp that I modified to work.

Yes I have a mason throat reamer I use on some of my CZ barrels but this extended barrel in the sp-01 seems longer than normal to start with so I have not reamed it yet.

Ya I have read a lot of good things about hs-6 also on my list of powders I need.

[dave33]

The more powder you have the more you can work the comp and evenly you'll find a sweet spot were that thing shoots really flat. Since you have a nice variety of bullets and powder you don't even need to make major to get the same comp effects, just use a lighter bullet and a slower burning powder.

I'm actually in the same stage as you testing a comp right now, different comp and different gun(still a CZ tho) but i've been running some test loads through quickload and the powders i've been testing so far are power pistol and autocomp but I also worked up some loads with AA#7 (incase I find some) and lighter bullets.

I'm not sure you can even fit enough aa#7 in a case to cause issues depending on how fine of a powder it is but with a 100gr bullet I believe you can work yup to about 11gr's depending on OAL and chronograph results if you need more gas to work the comp more, another thing if you have magnum primers it wouldn't be a bad idea to switch to those for a better burn.

One thing about Accurate #7, until you get pretty high in the load range it leaves a lot of unburned powder granules from breech to muzzle.  Probably right about not being enough room in the case to get into trouble, Ive heard of guys cramming a bullet on a full case of powder and have the round "grow" to be too long to fit the barrel.  And thats another thing Im sure you are aware of, CZ's have such short throats there are limits to what can be "safely" loaded unless the throat is reamed, which I dont plan to do.

If you can find some, HS-6 is a very popular major load powder.  It shows good promise in my limited use so far. 

What gun and comp are you loading for?  If you say a Czech Mate that will make me jealous and I will have to hate you.

That's a secret

Not really its a sp-01 shadow with a glock maverick comp that I modified to work.

Yes I have a mason throat reamer I use on some of my CZ barrels but this extended barrel in the sp-01 seems longer than normal to start with so I have not reamed it yet.

Ya I have read a lot of good things about hs-6 also on my list of powders I need.

Sounds cool, keep us updated on your progress.  Im also going to try a totally different approach for experimentation sake and load some coated lead with SR7625 to what will probably be upper 130's to lower 140's PF to see what I get.  SR7625 has been one of the best 9mm powders I have ever loaded with, especially with lead bullets, and I think it is slow enough to generate some gas too, and since I have about 8lbs of it I would be in good shape for a bit.  I've heard of people pushing this powder to major and may work in that direction too but would probably run out of room in the CZ chamber for that unless I ream it.

[eyetat]

HP-38 4.2 grains rock mountain HMRN nice shooter ,to cold out yet to crno for PF.

[Bossgobbler]

Auto-Comp is one of the better powders for loading major PF.  N350 also works well but it will be a compressed load.  Your small comp will not use all of the gas that a major load will produce.  with heavy use of major PF ammo, be on the lookout for your P09 taking a beating.     in my Czechmate I use Auto-Comp 7.0gn 124 PD jhp  1.155 OAL  1363 fps  169 PF  also  N350 7.0gn  124 PD jhp  1.160 OAL  1355 fps 168 PF .

I use Blue Bullets also with good results.

[ThompsonCustom]

Did a little major testing today, I couldnt tell a big difference in how much they worked the comp as I think I was over gassing the comp compared to my normal range ammo and I was paying more attention to the chrono than the recoil.

Lead cast 130gr bullets
6.6gr of power pistol avg 1375
6.9gr of autocomp avg 1406

Both of these look loads were to hot tho you couldn't tell it shooting the gun as they were both soft but 1275 makes major with this bullet.

105gr cast lead bullet
7.5gr of power pistol avg 1544fps
8gr of autocomp avg 1686fps.

Over all I was impressed with how soft the gun shot for as hot as the ammo was but I think the comp would probably do better from less gas. My comp has 3 vertical ports and 4 small horizontal port.

Something else that should be mentioned is to use new or once fired brass. I just grabbed some brass I had and loaded up these rounds. I had head case separation on two cases, doesn't had to hurt the gun at all but not worth risking.

[jameslovesjammie]

Did a little major testing today, I couldnt tell a big difference in how much they worked the comp as I think I was over gassing the comp compared to my normal range ammo and I was paying more attention to the chrono than the recoil.

One technique I have seen to test if you have too much gas was described by the Powerfactor Show.

https://youtu.be/zVDUhUzTUj8?t=11m48s


More on the technique here:

https://youtu.be/7ht6M1cpEPw?t=24m48s

Too much gas will tear the cardboard, just enough will make a nice hole.

[Bossgobbler]

Lead bullets will fill your comp, it is a real pain to get out.   Guns with comps work best with light bullets.  over 125gn you are going in to the danger zone! Not a good idea to push heavy bullets to major!    With 124-125gn try not to go over 1400fps  with 115gn try not to go over 1500fps with 105gn ?  You were lucky you only had case  separation, I hate to think what the PSI of your 130gn loads were, most likely close to Kaboom  

[1SOW]

I have a shooter-friend (Cocobolo) who likes Silhouette for gas under 124 gr fully jacketted bullets in 9mm major.
He posts on the Enos forum.


 

[ThompsonCustom]

Lead bullets will fill your comp, it is a real pain to get out.   Guns with comps work best with light bullets.  over 125gn you are going in to the danger zone! Not a good idea to push heavy bullets to major!    With 124-125gn try not to go over 1400fps  with 115gn try not to go over 1500fps with 105gn ?  You were lucky you only had case  separation, I hate to think what the PSI of your 130gn loads were, most likely close to Kaboom  

The bullets I use start out as a 124gr lead bullet that I cast and than powder coat so it's kind of like shooting a bullet with a plastic jacket when calculating the load I forgot the extra weight from the coating. Ya pressure was alot higher than what I was shooting for if I had to guess using quickload it was over 45k psi for the 130gr bullets which it seems like with my other cz's it's always came up a little long on the FPS but this time it was about 50fps short. The 105gr bullets just making major I think are only running about +p level but I'm not sure at close to 1700fps.

I've got a lot of playing around to do before I worry to much about comparing the gas comp effect out of this thing, Firstly I need to work a couple loads that safely just make major and run a few boxs than I can test everything else.