Author Topic: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!  (Read 183246 times)

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Offline joerchi69

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #135 on: August 02, 2020, 05:16:02 PM »
Hello Den,

that pin in the link looks more like a barrel roll pin..

CZ-USA shows that to be a Roll-Pin   https://shop.cz-usa.com/adapter-ejector-pin-kadet311565002008.html

Also found a link, but clicking on the pic it says hammer pin  ::) and that is what it looks like.

https://www.ipscstore.com/en/cz-75-sp-01/2107-cz-75-kadet-adapter-ejector-pin.html


Will have a look for a explosion chart if i find one. The small no quality drift punch i used has bend.
Even so Andres is right i think. May be i can press it out with a vice.
My holidays start tomorow. I will continue the ejector change in fall.

Offline DenStinett

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #136 on: August 02, 2020, 05:30:20 PM »
Yeak Joe, your's looks a lot different than mine
Yours is also, NOT a Roll-Pin (one's gotta wonder when CZ changed THAT ?)
Can't really tell, but seems that your Pin (possibly) has a "Head" on the Ejector side
Andres is correct in that the Pin is there, merrly to keep the Ejector from walking forward, in the Dovetail, under recoil
So, considering that; the Pin shouldn't have/need a Head
Do you have a Bench Block ?

Should come out punching from other side. Probably would be wise to support the ejector while punching out the pin to not damage the dovetail.
True, but I would drive the Pin from the Right (not Ejector) side
This side:


Is that you Pin Punch ?    ???
Did you bend it,trying to drive THAT Pin ?    :o

Using these Drawings:






Using JoeL's Pic for reference; I file, what would be the Corner at 6 o'clock, or the Southeast Corner of that Squared Face:


Granted; I don't have NEARLY the number of Rounds through my KADET as JoeL does, but I haven't had a Stovepipe since I modded my Ejector this way


So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline DenStinett

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #137 on: August 02, 2020, 05:34:25 PM »
Yes, oddly enough, this Pin DOES look to be the one in "our" KADETs:
https://www.ipscstore.com/en/cz-75-sp-01/2107-cz-75-kadet-adapter-ejector-pin.html

The CZ Schematic shows it to be No.48
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 05:38:31 PM by DenStinett »
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #138 on: August 02, 2020, 06:23:40 PM »
Back in the day, when I was one of the moderators on this forum, some members were having a lot of problems with CZ extractions -- lots of stove pipes.  Not everbody had the problem, but it was aggravating for those who did.   This was mostly for the center-fire versions of the CZs, but it COULD happen with rimfire models, too.

If the extractor itself was not damaged, the problem seemed to be one of two things: 
    1) The extractor spring was not strong enough, or

    2) gunk under the extractor, pretty common with cheap ammo.  (Explained below.)
Wolff springs developed a stronger extractor spring, and CZ later upgraded that spring in newer models. (They sent out a number of Wolff extractor springs, too, until they had their own supply on hand.)   The stronger spring seemed to solve 90% of the problems.  I don't think I ever heard of a Kadet Kit extraction issue, back then.

When there was still a problem, we found that cheap ammo is often dirty ammo, and some of the crud could work its way under the extractor, and that kept it from closing tightly on the rim of the cartridge.  The junk would often work it's way out with the next round.  (There's a lot of shaking and moving going on when that slide cycles!)
  • Stove piping is frequently an extractor issue, because the extractor isn't gripping the rim as tightly as it should, and it loses its grip on the rim before the casing can be dragged back far enough to hit the ejector properly.  That casing may slip up a bit, and be tilted into the "stove pipe" position by the ejector.  Then the spent casing stays on the breech face and pushes the next round forward, or it will ride on top of the next round and be held there as the slide tries to close.  Either way, there's almost always a strove pipe casing in the ejection port.
Before adjusting the ejector, try take the slide off and see if there's any junk under the extractor. That junk can keep the extractor from tightly gripping the case rim.   (Just squirting some CLP or a similar cleaner or solvent or lube under the extractor -- pushing it open enough to do that -- may be enough to flush out any junk.  That way you don't have to remove the extractor to check.)

I do have a Kadet Kit, which I typically run on my 85 Combat, but have never had an issue with it, after replacing the firing pin (about 22-23 years ago), which was upgraded by CZ soon after I got it.  It's one of the most accurate  and reliable .22s I've owned. 

I suspect crappy ammo may play a bigger role in this problem than most shooters realize.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 07:18:23 PM by Walt Sherrill »

Offline DenStinett

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #139 on: August 02, 2020, 08:48:59 PM »
Well put Walt
Been saying that for awhile now: https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=7863.msg866439#msg866439
Everybody forgets how big a part the Extractor Tension plays into reliable ejection
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline Andres B

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #140 on: August 03, 2020, 01:07:42 AM »
Yes, oddly enough, this Pin DOES look to be the one in "our" KADETs:
https://www.ipscstore.com/en/cz-75-sp-01/2107-cz-75-kadet-adapter-ejector-pin.html

The CZ Schematic shows it to be No.48

Yep. Thats the one. Solid pin.

Offline joerchi69

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #141 on: August 03, 2020, 08:38:18 AM »
Thanks to all for the help !  8)
I will give it a try to remove the pin after the summer holiday with time and ease. Try to get my stuff and me on the bike and on the road at the moment.
Den: I have a nearly identical bench block and the seen pin punch was the one bending trying to move the pin on it. To poor quality in relation to that pinĀ“s fit. Will try to press it out with a vice.
Walt: I will check for gunk under the extractor again. Getting stove pipes i frequently had removed it to check. And to put in a new one. Found less gunk than expected. I could replace the spring with a new one or try to lenghten the one built in. In fall i will try different ammo, for example the S&B Andres recommendated.
Finally i think the new ejector - tenderly modified - will do it.
Andres: Thanks again for the wink with the dovetail, and supporting it when trying to move the pin out.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 08:53:50 AM by joerchi69 »

Offline joerchi69

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #142 on: August 03, 2020, 08:51:25 AM »
In 9mm my shadow 1 is 100% reliable. Forgot to say. But that is clear as day i suppose.

Offline DenStinett

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #143 on: August 03, 2020, 06:57:14 PM »
You bet Joe
Have a GREAT Summer   8)
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2020, 09:57:18 AM »
Walt: I will check for gunk under the extractor again. Getting stove pipes i frequently had removed it to check. And to put in a new one. Found less gunk than expected. I could replace the spring with a new one or try to lenghten the one built in. In fall i will try different ammo, for example the S&B

I continue to wonder WHY, if the ejector is the cause of the problem, as many here have suggested, most of failures cited are described as irregular (i.e., sometimes it runs right and sometimes it doesn't.)  If a part is wrong and causing the problem, most would it expect the problem to be much more regularly seen:  the problem ought to be ought to be there MOST of the time or all of the time, but not just some of the time.   (That said, crappy ammo might not be giving the same recoil force with each shot, and THAT could have an effect on extraction AND ejection.  And cheap .22 ammo is truly the bottom of the barrel in terms of functionality.)

Lengthening the spring will potentially damage the spring and cause it to lose  strength rather than strengthen the spring*.  (You may see a small improvement if the "lengthened" spring was too weak, but over the next couple of sessions, you'll see the problem repeated with greater frequency.)
    * When a coil springs weakens, it's because some of the metal within the spring has suffered micro fractures from heavy use; the remaining steel has to do additional work and eventually more micro fractures will occur.  Stretching the spring just induces more micro fractures.
The same thing happens with leaf springs, but the work area (where the metal is tensioned) tends to be more localized in a leaf spring, and these springs work (but less well) until they break.  Coil springs tend to soften (as more and more spring material is damaged) and are replaced (due to loss of functionality) before they break.

I don't know if the Kadet Kit uses the same extractor spring as the center-fire versions of the gun, but if it does, getting a Wolff extra-strength extractor spring would be a cheap solution.  (That said, a new factory spring should be roughly the same spring.)  As I said earlier, I've never had to even check the extractor on my Kadet Kit.  I've also given up on cheap .22 ammo.  Spend a bit more for better performance and better accuracy. 

I hope replacing and tweaking the ejector solves your problem.   
 

Offline ViperM

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #145 on: August 10, 2020, 02:54:26 PM »
I was having consistent failures to extract with my Kadet 2.  Every mag had at least 1 or 2 FTE.  I filed the extractor to give it the angle and I am happy to say I fired 400 rounds through the kadet yesterday and had no FTE issues at all. 

Offline DenStinett

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #146 on: August 10, 2020, 08:01:26 PM »
Hey Viper:
Cool that you've got your KADET running 100%
But just to clarify ....
Did you file the Extractor or the Ejector ?
If it WAS your Extractor, what part of it did you work on ?
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline ViperM

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #147 on: August 11, 2020, 10:39:01 AM »
Sorry, filed the ejector, not extractor.

Offline DenStinett

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #148 on: August 11, 2020, 11:55:44 PM »
Sorry, filed the ejector, not extractor.

 ;)
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline actvlsnr

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Re: Solve your CZ 75 Kadet Stovepipe Problems!!!!
« Reply #149 on: January 14, 2021, 08:33:22 PM »
In case anyone is interested, there is a new Kadet 2 kit listed in GB

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