Author Topic: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log  (Read 12479 times)

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Offline SlvrDragon50

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2016, 05:58:13 PM »
That tip was awesome OlegG. I'm not very good at stopping at the reset, but what I discovered was that my finger naturally sits closer to the knuckle rather than the tip of the pad. I adjusted that after the 5th targets as well as putting my arms out more.



All shots were at 5 yards except for the last 5 shots in target 5, they were at 7 yards.

Target 4 was really good. I was just getting shot after shot into the same spot, but then I started to get too excited and I had that random shot going down. Target 1 was before I really made any adjustments.

Total shot count: 500

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2016, 07:01:44 PM »
Nice work!
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."

Offline OlegG

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2016, 08:47:07 AM »
Good work and dramatic difference in your targets. As far as the placement of the trigger finger: it is relevant but only insofar as it allows you to press the trigger straight to the rear in a smooth motion until the shot breaks. Do not try to place the finger "just as it says in the book" Instead, try to find the position of the finger that allows YOU to execute a straight and smooth trigger press consistently. In this context, straight means a position of the trigger finger where you do not pull the muzzle left or right as you press the trigger.

About getting excited about "how well I am shooting today, dang!" We all do it. Ideally, when you are preparing and making the shot, all previous shots are irrelevant - they simply never happened, the only shot that you will EVER  fire in your life, is the one you are getting ready to make NOW. Once you finish your range session, you can take all the time you want and deserve to admire your targets :)

Offline 1SOW

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2016, 02:28:46 PM »
OlegG has it right.
Read "JoeL"'s posts and threads about trigger control.  He also has it very right.

Offline SlvrDragon50

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2016, 03:36:05 PM »
Went back today and I think it is better. My arm isn't as sore since I am doing my grip exercises AFTER shooting today haha.

I think I am suffering from fatigue though because once again, my first target is my best target. I think it is a combination of my eyes failing to keep focus on the front sight (and not remembering to blink) and not being used to keeping my shoulders elevated for so long. Also, I have some sort of wrist injury, and my weak hand's wrist feels pretty sore when I grip the CZ for that long.

All in all, I am pretty happy with the progress. I shot 10 rounds at 7 yards and got most on target. I could definitely feel when shots were going off typically due to my finger moving on the trigger.


Offline el capitan

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2016, 06:43:05 PM »
You are progressing quickly after receiving some really useful recommendations, that you followed. With that "my first 5 shots were the best" you are not alone at all - maybe this is due to the fact that you let the first mag "happen", afterwards you want to improve things. And too much WANT ruins it. After years I?m still doing this much too often despite knowing better. The trick is to find that sweet spot between concentration and relaxation; something I?m still after. Some days are better, some are worse. If you got the feeling after 30-40 rounds that this isn?t your day: just quit. Come back another day and benefit from advancements instead of wasting ammo while you frustrate yourself ...
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Online Joe L

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2016, 10:29:21 PM »
You are getting some really good advice in the responses.  I'll add a few things to try. 

You indicated in one of the posts on the first page that you did better taking up the slack and then moving the trigger to the rear smoothly but quickly.  I would change that up just a little.  Try "prepping the trigger".  This means not only taking up the slack but actually putting some pressure on the sear as you are lining up the sights.  Then move the trigger to the rear smoothly without changing the tension in your other fingers at all.  Don't "force" the shot!  Just let the hammer drop as you add pressure to the trigger.  Here is a link to a dry fire video you can use to learn to prep the trigger,



The idea is to learn to pull the trigger without moving the gun.  You can minimize movement by prepping the trigger and not jerking the trigger. 

Another idea you might try.  I leave both eyes open when shooting an open sight gun, but I have to do something to train my brain to ignore the non-dominant eye, which is my left eye.  I used to take a little bit of chapstick and smear a little in the middle of my left eyeglass lens.  Just enough so that the sight and target are a little blurry through the left eye.  Then you look at the front sight with your dominant eye without straining to close the other eye to avoid double vision.  After a few sessions like this, you may be able to see the sights fine with less or no chapstick.  Just something to try. 

I often have the best target as the first target.  I also don't shoot as well in a match as I do in practice.  It's mental.  The goal is to shoot enough well enough so that you shoot subconsciously and don't have to consciously control every little detail.  It's too much to do consciously.  Like driving a car--if you do everything consciously, with effort, you get bogged down in the details.  Also, let your wrists rest up a little and adapt to the new demands created from shooting.  You can't shoot well while learning if your wrists are aching and sore. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2016, 11:47:49 PM »
Nice work and continuation on your practice. Joe L gave me some great advice a while back when I was asking for help, its definitely valuable help.
I've finally gotten on a real practice schedule for dry fire the last 3 weeks and it helps a lot to really be spending time working through all the fundamentals and drills. As I have been trying to clean up my draw I just came across this video by Mike Seeklander and I really like how he explains how to train on building a good grip. He and Rob Leatham are buddies and compete against each other (as friends and in competition, you can hear about it on Mike's podcast when he interviews Rob) and they are just stupid fast. Anyways, hope this gives another aspect to practice as you build more good habits. Soon you'll be shooting 5 shot groups just that tight in around 2 seconds or faster. But as Brian Enos teaches, always make sure you can shoot accurately before just shooting fast.

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Offline SlvrDragon50

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2016, 12:05:13 AM »
Very neat videos!

I'm getting my CGW hammer and sear in tomorrow so I'll probably have it installed some time this weekend. And hopefully when I get my dremel up here in a month I'll be able to remove pretravel altogether!!!

I'll be sure to practice the prep.

Offline OlegG

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2016, 09:32:35 AM »
A great video by Joe - really shows you what happens when you slap the trigger or place the finger incorrectly. A terrific visual aid to contrast what happens when you do things correctly and what occurs when you don't. Thanks, Joe, great help.

Offline SSGN_Doc

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2016, 12:22:35 PM »
You are responding well to online coaching.  I like a lot of the videos by Travis Haley.  He gives some good tips here as he is explaining his 100 round warm-up.  Watch the video a few times and pull some of the neuroscience info he is giving.  He has another video about a target stripe drill which discusses physiology a bit and how to improve trigger press.


Offline RenegadeDave

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2016, 12:59:24 PM »
I will make you a video tonight/tomorrow on how I use my grip.  Trigger finger placement is a factor but not as big a factor as many would suggest (for practical pistol, bullseye I won't comment on)


Sent from an iDevice.  Please forgive any grammatical or spelling errors.  If the post doesn't make sense or is not amusing then it is technology's fault and most certainly not operator error.
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Offline SlvrDragon50

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2016, 10:16:03 PM »
Some nice exercises there. Unfortunately I shoot at an indoor range where rapid fire is not allowed... That said, I'm not really at the level where I can rapid fire accurately anyways!

I just installed my CGW hammer so I'll be taking it for a test run tomorrow.

Offline SSGN_Doc

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Re: SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2016, 01:12:21 AM »
You can modify the drill to remove the time elements to a degree And focus on the other areas of timing, sight picture or sight vs target focus, grip and leverage, trigger press, follow through, etc.

Offline RenegadeDave

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SlvrDragon50's Shooting Log
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2016, 08:20:20 AM »
video is processing now, but there are some things I didn't say but wish I had  so I'll use this space to address those.

Pulling shots low can be from trigger finger placement but is usually from trying to combat recoil with your trigger finger, but can also be part of a flinch. 

Developing a solid grip is possibly the most important part of shooting a pistol.  This comes from a practical pistol perspective.  Out at 25 yards I'm sure there are nuances that start to make a difference for precision, but generally these will be applicable. 

Prepping vs. straight to the rear.  You're about to install a hammer that will make your gun fire with sub 2# of pressure, with the resistance of the trigger spring you won't notice "the wall".  Develop a good trigger press that works in double action, your single action press is going to be similar.  If you treat the trigger as a heavy double action and a light double action, should you ever try to compete, it will serve you well.  Long shots, yes prep, but typical pistol ranges (15 yards and in) it generally isn't necessary.

A superb drill to diagnose what's happening when you pull the trigger is (at the range) charge the gun with a round, drop the mag and put it on the bench.  Fire the shot, then follow up with a dry fire shot.  Observe what your muzzle does.  A flinch/anticipation will be a sharp fast movement generally toward the floor, sometimes it will be up and to the right in a right handed shooter.  If your front sight dips slightly as you manipulate the trigger than it's going to be your approach to the trigger.  Ultimately you want to isolate your trigger press at the second knuckle and disassociate the trigger manipulation from the sympathetic  movement in the other fingers.  3 fingers pulling hard and 1 finger pulling just hard enough to break the shot takes some practice.  If you overpull the trigger you're going to jerk the sights down, or if you're not using enough grip pressure your trigger press can make the other fingers sympathetically tense and you start "milking" the grip which throws shots to the support side.  Marry the two and you get down and to the left (for a right handed shooter) 

On grip, I forgot to mention an important part.  When I build my grip I engage my chest a bit, and the way I do that is by pressing the outside (pinky edge of palms, like you are pressing your pinkies together) of my palms together (with moderate pressure).  Both hands will feel like they're slightly rotating out away from each other at the top of your hands, but because you're using strong pressure in your fingers it just locks the gun in.  You'll know you've got a good grip and you've got your wrists locked out when you pull the trigger and the sights lift slightly then settle in on the same point of aim.  If your grip makes you "trap" the muzzle climb at it's highest point then you manually slowly return the muzzle to target, you're not doing it right.  That means your wrists aren't preloaded with the proper tension or you've got too much tension in your back.   

That said, you should not feel tension in your back and shoulders when you're shooting.  If you are, that means that the recoil impulse is traveling through your rigid arms into your core.  What you want to do is create a condition to let recoil happen and your hands/arms need to be the vise at the end of two dampeners.  Relax the muscles not actively engaged in gripping the gun.  This is critically important if you ever start shooting on the move. 

For longer range shots I cannot use less grip pressure, because the frame may start to move during trigger manipulation, my 25 yard groups are shot with the same grip pressure as the hoser arrays 5-7 yards out. 

As far as how it worked for me, squaring away my grip and eliminating play in the gun during trigger manipulation paid the greatest dividends and ensured acceptable shot placement, refining trigger manipulation will lead to precision in shot placement.  Plus with these CZ wonder guns you can then have a "floating" sight picture and they become really fun.  CZ's are great in slow fire, but when you get opportunities to start running at speed you'll get a whole new level of appreciation for the 75 design. 

Aaaanddd we're done.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 11:37:23 AM by RenegadeDave »
Check out my Youtube channel! I geek out on CZ's and post match videos. 
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