Why would one choose a Bren 805 over an AR?

[armoredman]

It's also that herd follower thing... I always love supporting the underdog, the little guy, and setting my own trends.

[bull]

Id like one..i have never owned an ar..never even shot 1 until my buddy let me borrow his..ar's are a meh to me.....a lot will depend on cost for me

[Kenneth]

Id like one..i have never owned an ar..never even shot 1 until my buddy let me borrow his..ar's are a meh to me.....a lot will depend on cost for me

This is true. There is definitely a difference between an average Guy's AR ($600) and then a guys that has several or researched ($1500+).

I'm not saying you need to spend that much but don't buy the DPMS/Stag or anything at your Walmart.

Get a proper BCM/DD or "possibly" Colt.

Ok so I may have mis read. Your gonna spend about the same for a quality rifle but the Bren will be higher over all.

[RSR]

The buffer spring noise isn't much of an issue nowadays with better machining practices. If you have an AR that does it excessively just smooth the inside of the buffer tube and get a better buffer spring.

I agree though if you have a rifle that goes SPROINGGG its really annoying.


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JP captured springs nearly eliminate the sprong...  There are also some hydraulic piston options that do the same...  Also, carbine type stocks vs the hollow A1 style seem to amplify and transmit much less of that sound to the jaw/ear.

[RSR]

Id like one..i have never owned an ar..never even shot 1 until my buddy let me borrow his..ar's are a meh to me.....a lot will depend on cost for me

This is true. There is definitely a difference between an average Guy's AR ($600) and then a guys that has several or researched ($1500+).

I'm not saying you need to spend that much but don't buy the DPMS/Stag or anything at your Walmart.

Get a proper BCM/DD or "possibly" Colt.

Ok so I may have mis read. Your gonna spend about the same for a quality rifle but the Bren will be higher over all.

I think stag arms puts out really quality parts, but not an expert on complete rifles.  Prefer their parts to DD actually.  BCM is reliable, but "milspec" doesn't always mean max performance as civilian consumers typically define... 
By no means an AR expert, but for complete builds, Windham would prob be my first choice for an economical gun with Aero second and Bushmaster or Stag third...   FN commercial is worth mentioning, though their commercial stuff is built in same factory as military, it's built to different specs and different blueprints and on different machines so not to infringe upon their sublicense agreement of Colt plans required for them to fulfill the US military contracts/specs. 
For a higher end but still affordable offering, I think it's tough to beat Colt especially their barrels, though BCM is a good equivalent on everything but barrel accuracy...  DD is probably worth including at this level too. 
High end, I don't know that anyone can really compete w/ noveske or larue.  Knights too.
AND ranking the piston AR makers/systems is a whole other discussion...

Complete DIY, high quality with sale prices you can find in a variety of places on the web -- off the top of my head on parts and pricing:
Aero precision lower for $50.
Stag Lower Parts Kit w/ trigger for $70.
Aero precision standard upper for $100. or Aero precison M4e1 upper (effectively monolithic upper) for $125, both complete. 
Aero precision railed handguards for either upper for ~$125 (rail req to complete M4e1 mono upper).
Bolt carrier group, bcm: $175
Buffer tube, stock, retainer, buffer, spring: $100 for H2 buffer, car spring, midrange magpul stock, and POF USA enhanced buffer tube.
Ballistic advantage barrel w/ gas block installed: $200
Barrel nut included w/ either of handguard options mentioned.
Gas tube: $15
Pistol Grip: $20
Muzzle device, standard A2: $20
BUIS: $100
Charging handle: $20
Total: ~$1000 for a really high end custom AR if you build
And you can easily find further cost savings in places while still having a reliable gun such as barrel, bcg, buis, stag lpk to psa, etc.

You can upgrade further on lower w/ geissele g2s trigger for $125, norgon mag release $90, Knights ambi safety $50, odin works XMR2 mag release $20, bad lever +$30, rear receiver plate w/ QD slot $20, bcm ambi charging handle $60 for a totally tricked out gun at an additional $400. 

For complete uppers, as mentioned, you can get a base blem Adams Arms Piston for $500 and several of the BCM stripped uppers come in at the $500-600 range as well (with bcgs w/ both companies -- believe AA comes with buffer and perhaps buffer tube and spring too) .  Then all you need is a rail/hg, sights, stock and buffer and a lower build -- which can be done for as little as $200 if you're flexible on quality.

So that's effectively 2 high quality ARs that can be built for 1 Bren carbine, which was my original point...  But one can only effectively shoot one gun at a time, so YMMV.  Which also ties into optics, which I didn't list as cost will be the same regardless of weapon system...

[RSR]

To be clear, saying on price/value + utility/versatility perspective, it's really tough to beat the AR these days, not that it's categorically superior to the Bren in every or even most ways...  The AR is the "safe" choice.

If looking for cool factor, that's entirely subjective. 

If looking other factors like reliability, ammo standardization, personal ergo preferences, etc, that's very much defined by any one person's own goals and objectives and perspectives. 

Cleaning and maintenance matters too -- if you shoot a lot and/or frequently, piston guns are hands down easier to clean than DI ones, especially if you're anal about cleaning...

Though I really dig the original Galil for instance, I don't care at all for the appearance of the modernized Galil ACE -- though it's a proven super reliable and effective weapon system.  Same price, Galil vs Bren (and that both use same stanag mags -- w/ galil ace and galil mags, it might tilt the balance to the galil), I'd probably go w/ the Bren.  So my bias on looks leads me to preferring the Bren.  W/ 5.56 and inherently mild recoil, I also like the idea of a short stroke piston and a lighter and balanced bolt carrier than the AK-derived version in the Galil; mention as definitely part of the equation too...  So it's stuff that has a lot to do w/ my experience, whether when pulling the trigger or looking at the weapon...

If I had to choose between a $1500 AR in whatever configuration I could choose and the Bren, it would be a really tough choice as the quality and capabilities and known performance per dollar spent of all the components is a much firmer "known" on the AR vs the 805 Bren. 

All things considered: first gun, my recommendation is to get a midrange AR configured for primary need (target shooting, varmint shooting, home defense, shtf, etc) and a bunch of ammo and mags -- would recommend DI, but piston works too: main thing is DI has more parts commonality but main gain is learning manual of arms for what's probably the most common semi-auto rifle weapon system in this county.  Use it and learn what you like and don't about it.  Select second weapon system w/ needs and informed opinion from use...
2nd gun, get whatever cool factor or niche use you weren't able to cover with your first weapon.

Lastly, b/c I don't really feel much emotional connection to ARs vs other weapon systems, I don't care nearly as much to use them, which means subjecting to inevitable abuse -- whether throwing in the truck or setting down on rocks, etc.  Weapons that I care more about seem to get less use and/or more delicate care, which objectively, is the reverse of what it should be with what is ultimately a tool...  If you won't make substantial use of a weapon for fear of dings or damage, it's really contrary to its intended purpose...  But if you're the type that once you get the first dent in your truck, you're able to let go, then perhaps this is less of a problem...  W/ my galils and even VZs for instance, I have "safe queen wood furniture" and then other more abused wood/polymer furniture I'll mount and use without care...  YMMV.

[qwikrex]

I don't think I'd choose a Bren over an AR, for serious use/training that is. I'd pick one up just for the sheer cool factor/uniqueness of it.

[Erasmus7]

I got my Bren with the purpose of it becoming my daily patrol rifle. I planned to use it for firearms instruction as well and letting my students use it. I also let my students shoot my scar 17. Why? Because in my opinion the reasons for owning an AR platform as your go to rifle have now dwindled. There are several military weapons, most notably the scar and Tavor, that have started replacing the AR as patrol rifles. From a law enforcement perspective I've noticed the trends in civilian small arms emulate what police and military currently use. With military arms they may not necessarily get the best weapon platform due to politics and cost, but on a department level we tend to buy the best available for the price that we can afford. So if the department decides that they want scar 16's for $1500, the Bren would fit that roll perfectly. Add to that CZ offers a significant law enforcement discount as well as incentives for buying more than 20 rifles. The balance tips even more in favor of the Bren. I would shoot one before making up your mind, but I'm sure everyone here has nothing but good things to say about the rifle. And I'm sure that most of us could afford whatever we want. I love my scar 17 because it is such a vast improvement over any other 308 auto rifle on the market. High end piston AR's included. But the scar 16, to me, did not offer such significant advances over my PWS piston AR that I could justify the ridiculous cost. The Bren, however, is actually an improved scar 16. Add to that the fact you get more gun, for less cost? I was sold. So to me and most people I believe we will never give up our AR's, but you can't deny it is a dated platform and no longer the best of the best.

[AZ_CZ]

Erasmus 7 nice post but why did you choose the Bren, what qualities make it better other than a LE discount?

[Border Dave]

The Bren, however, is actually an improved scar 16.

Please expand on this statement.

[armoredman]

I have no experience with the SCAR, other than some photos, so I am also curious about that. I am VERY happy with my BREN, too.

[Erasmus7]

The Bren, however, is actually an improved scar 16.

Please expand on this statement.

The Bren was designed from the start to compete with scar, but with the advantage of having a scar already designed and a functional firearm to work off of. The Bren has a lower mass bolt carrier as compared to the scar. I'm not sure but I believe that this is one of the reasons for the lower recoil impulse. It has less mass to slam into the rear which transfers lesser recoil through the stock. Another improvement is the easier to clean and dissemble gas piston. I'm sure I don't need to explain why this is such a big advantage. The improved upper receiver is cnc machined as opposed to extruded like the scar. While this makes the gun heavier it also increases the rigidity of the upper. In my opinion the added weight up top also contributes to the lighter recoil of the Bren. The Bren barrel system is improved in that unlike the scar, the Bren is able to change from 5.56, 300 blackout and 308, all in the same platform. The 308 caliber conversion requiring a seperate magwell in addition to the barrel. So with your Bren you can in essence have a scar 16 and 17. The Bren is overbuilt for a 5.56 due to it needing to be able to handle the heavier recoil and pressure of the 308. I'm not a CZ fanboy and the Bren is actually the first CZ I have owned. I've been praising the scar since I first shot it. It is a great weapon platform and my scar 17 is my favorite rifle by far. I hope I answered your question as un biased as possible. These are my opinions and facts taken from research. I hope this helps anyone interested in purchasing a Bren. I don't think you will be disappointed.
 

[armoredman]

Thank you for that reasoned and fact filled post, sir!

[Erasmus7]

No problem. I own a lot of firearms and I don't buy junk. While the Bren 806 is supposed to fix the weight issue and also have a boot release, I am confident that the aftermarket will have fixes for those soon. I also hate to say it but I like the looks of the 805 better than the 806.

[RSR]

Not LE, but I would think a folding stock rifle like the Bren would be a tremendous improvement in allowing one to deploy rifle faster, including keeping the patrol rifle in the cab (but not in the way as much as a say a shotgun or AR) vs the trunk, which is where most LE I know personally seem to keep theirs... 
Same/similar argument for the increasing popularity of the Tavor IMO (plus the full length vs SBR barrels, ballistics, according compactness and reduced muzzle blast indoors if unsuppressed, etc). 
For LE ranges (often 25 yards or less, nearly always 100 yards or less), the accuracy difference between higher quality ARs and barrels, and the Bren doesn't matter much for those who aren't SWAT snipers...

While I am pretty much the complete opposite of an AR fanboy, I begrudging have to give the weapon system merit...  Which is why I don't agree w/ the "dwindled" position.  The AR parts and accessory market is huge -- even full ambi lower receivers are now available.  Heck, much of the current military modernization package is items/upgrades moved from the civilian market to the military...  Better than milspec AR parts and components abound, and personalization type components are available for nearly any wish one might have... 

If you want to talk DI vs piston op, pistons always win when suppressed.  But there are piston ARs available and the current "best" as determined by military units w/ unlimited funds in 5.56 is the HK416, which is a short stroke piston AR.  Piston for suppressed reasons previously mentioned and also for abuse torture test performance.  But to keep accuracy, they had to go w/ a heavy barrel so weight penalty twice for piston and heavy barrel -- on average, DIs w/ flee float rails can always be made more accurate than a piston gun...

For a .308 carbine, I tend to agree w/ you on the SCAR-H on basis of weight, ambi/ergo controls (note for those not familiar, the scar does not have an ambi bolt release but does have a reversible charging handle), handling, etc -- but for a carbine role, I'd typically prefer a caliber other than .308...  Best .308 semi-auto if needing just one rifle or for every role? No, not in my opinion.  I look at semi-auto .308s best use being for marksman roles beyond 400 yards (excluding hunting)...
I will say the SCAR is most definitely a superior choice to the M14 in the desert and for accurizing...
.308 main battle rifle, I'd probably go w/ an FN FAL, .308 AK/variant, or (less ideal than prev two IMO, but still a better all around choice than the SCAR-H for a MBR) PTR91 due to IMO being equally to more robust, much cheaper to own (spare parts and mags and weapon cost itself), and none having significant drawbacks vs the SCAR H other than weight...
For accuracy, an AR10 (same arguments as above for the AR15) would be a better choice for a DMR type setup...  And with the 400-800 yard ideal use (1000 yard doable, though I'd prefer a higher caliber and more accurate bolt gun at those ranges) noted earlier for .308 -- the AR10 is actually probably my ideal configuration for my needs in this caliber.

Agree that the Bren is a tremendous value vs it's latest generation military rifle peers -- if ignoring updated AR and AK variants in particular.