ATF and SBR form question.

[Mindless-Focus]

Then there is this snippet from a letter from the ATF. Still, I'd fill out a 5230.20.

[Sigm4]

Then there is this snippet from a letter from the ATF. Still, I'd fill out a 5230.20.

I've done this very thing a time or two with a registered AR lower when I took it me to Texas on a last minute type of trip, no time for 5230.20. 

[oldschoolhdmike]

so i found out that the ceska whatever was the mfg but where was it manufactured?  my gun says cz-usa?  but was it manufactured here?

[Randoogler]

Czech Republic. Can always use the Wiki page for reference when doing your Form 1

[OhHey1]

Take this for what it's worth. I'm a police officer and have worked with the ATF in search warrants to confiscate sawed off barrels out of meth houses. I was told by one of the ATF agents that I spoke with that I don't have to engrave anything unless I sell it. He loved my SBR'd Scorpion with Zhukov stock. I told him I hadn't gotten it engraved yet and that's when he told me I did not have to.

He was down here for ATF violations and held my SBR which was not engraved and told me I was not in violation of anything. So I have no plans to engrave anything. I have 3 pending tax stamps right now.

[Spearjunkie]

Yeah, regardless of how it started life, once it's made into an NFA item, it's now that item regardless of configuration. You can get permission for up to 12 months and it's free. Only items excluded from needing permission is AOW and suppressors.

This is incorrect!

If you have a registered SBR (EVO) and configure back to a standard pistol, you can cross state lines without any issues as it is not an SBR in the original configuration.  Just because it is registered as an SBR it doesn't mean it's an SBR if it is not configured as such.

[Tenbones]

{/quote} This is incorrect!

If you have a registered SBR (EVO) and configure back to a standard pistol, you can cross state lines without any issues as it is not an SBR in the original configuration.  Just because it is registered as an SBR it doesn't mean it's an SBR if it is not configured as such.
[/quote]

This makes more sense to me.  If you configure it back to its original configuration, how will anybody know it had once been SBR'd unless they check, and even then, it's not an SBR if its in its original configuration.  The tax stamp should only apply when the EVO is in the SBR configuration.

[Tenbones]

That is totally illogical!  All the tax stamp does is give you the option of configuring your EVO to an SBR, if and when, the mood hits you.

[Spearjunkie]

Spearjunkie, you are incorrect.

It is a regulated device despite whether you have a short or long barrel on it.

The tax stamp should only apply when the EVO is in the SBR configuration.

Is your vehicle registration only valid when the key is in the ignition?

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

It's either a registered SBR or it isn't.

OK, let's look at it another way.

You're driving home to show your family the gun and while you're halfway there you have to stop at a gas station to fill up and take a whizz, when some gangbanger walks past the car and sees the gun in the backseat and decides he deserves to have that gun more than you do and busts your window out and grabs it and takes off? 

What happens then?

Well, here's what happens.

You have to get a police report obviously and then you get the joy of notifying NFA branch and informing them that your SBR is stolen and it is no longer in your possession (because after all, it IS an NFA regulatated regardless of barrel length). 

I promise when you call NFA branch to report the gun stolen, they will want details and will be looking into whether the you, the gun owner, dotted your eyes and crossed his tees.   Barrel length and whether a stock was attached at the time of the gun being stolen will mean exactly squat.

It is only regulated when it is configured as an SBR, period! 

[Greankrayon]

Everyone who reads this thread please disregard EVERYONES interpretation of nfa regulated items.

[Obiwan]

Somehow I doubt this is the first time this question came up. Isn't there an official statement or opinion from the ATF regarding this matter? Does anyone have references to such official statement?

Edit: Sorry, apparently just a page prior in this thread: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=80884.msg592396#msg592396

So, does this needs to get confirmed once more or repudiated? I guess when in doubt, one could check directly with the ATF and obtain such letter for themselves, keeping it in their files as well as on-hand when travelling, correct?

[Tenbones]

I think the question has now become; If revert your EVO to its original, store bought configuration, can your transport it across state lines without all the prerequisite paperwork?  At least, that's what I am arguing. 

[Spearjunkie]

No.

The only way to De-regulate it is notify NFA branch in writing and ask them to cancel your stamp and remove your serial number from the registry.

Let me give you an example!

You have AR 15 lower that is registered and was built with. 10.5" barrel.  You slap a 16" barreled upper on it and can transport it across state lines as it is not considered a NFA without a shorter than 16" barrel on it.  So if you configure you EVO back to original stock CZ pistol configuration it is not considered and NFA item even though it is registered.

So if you were to get stopped by an ATF officer out of state, what would they arrest you for, having a registered lower with a 16" barrel or a registered EVO in a pistol configuration that is perfectly legal to possess by anyone that can own a firearm?  I am not new to the NFA items so do some research and you will figure it out.

[Spearjunkie]

OK, most states accept SBR's, so if I drive from KY to TN, sbr's are still legal in both states so it's not an issue of what barrel you have on it, so let's forget the barrel altogether right now. 

When you register your AR lower, you register the receiver/serial number. 

The receiver is the sbr.  Not the barrel.

I think I know what you're saying, if someone were to look at the gun, they wouldn't know it was an SBR with a 16 inch upper on it.  That's true.  But NFA/ATF says that you can't take SBR's across state lines unless you notify them on a form 20.

Here is the form.  There is no exemptions listed on the form for taking a 16 inch upper.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/atf-f-5320-20pdf-0/download

The receiver is still registered as an SBR in the nfa database even if it has no barrel on it at all, and therefore if you take the receiver out of state, all NFA laws apply.

I'm not new to NFA either.  I own more than a half a dozen stamp goods of various kinds.  Most on form 1's where I've built SBR's and suppressors, but I also have a f4 machinegun thrown in the mix.

I also had my FFL's for nearly a decade and I'm not new to ridiculous regulations there either.

The shortest answer is the receiver is what the firearm is.  Whether it is an AR15 or anything else.  That's what the atf classifies as the "gun".

SBR's are no different in that respect.  And probably moreso.   It has nothing at all to do with what barrel you have on the lower or no barrel at all on the lower.  You can legally swap barrel lengths and calibers all day long, but the receiver is still the SBR.  I'm having a difficult time being any more plain than that.  Barrel length means nothing.  The receiver is registered as an SBR/NFA device. 

If you take the registered sbr receiver out of state, you're taking the SBR out of state.

Read this:

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/files/2015/02/Transport-a-Title-II-as-a-Title-1-across-state-lines.pdf

Letter from ATF!

[Tenbones]

Well there you go.  The last full paragraph of your letter from the ATF pretty much says it all.  Converting it back to its original configuration does not require ATF paperwork to take it across state lines.