Why no love for CZ?

[montigre]

Wow, I was perusing some general firearm sites and came across this thread where the majority felt the CS 75 platform was unreliable and prone to failure compared to other brands such as HK, Glock, Sig...

I just purchased 2 CZs (Custom Shadow Tac II and a P0-1) and am extremely happy with them thus far, but I still have very few rounds through them. 

So, are these examples of CZ issues real?  Should I be stocking up on spare springs, slide stops and other parts?  Or is this just an example of people being more familiar with the other brands since they have been out and about longer than CZs in the USA?

Here's the link: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20886-Are-CZs-best-as-range-game-guns

[s0nspark]

PF is the other forum I spend my time on and I have to say... it is a generally a great source for info from guys who seriously push their gear.

The second post in that thread is on the money - there are a few points of concern with stock parts on a CZ: the stock TRS is a common source of failure (CGW makes a better replacement) and having a spare slide stop is certainly advisable, as that part take a huge amount of punishment due to the design of the platform. Depending on how you use your guns and how hard you push them there are other things you would want to address or plan for...

The thing is, this is true of any platform. ;-)

Some guns may require less maintenance than others but it comes down to what you get out of it, right? For me, a CZ P-07 is about as close to the perfect gun for what I'm after so the few small upgrades I do to make it more reliable are more than worth it. I also have a dedicated training gun that sees most of the action so that my carry gun (once vetted with 400-500 rounds) can be depended on should I need it ... again, I think this is just common sense regardless of what you choose to carry!

The bottom line is that every gun has strengths and weaknesses... anyone serious about the craft or needing to depend on a gun for their life should really take the time to fully understand how best to maintain their gun of choice for best results.
 

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Nothing wrong with the CZ platform. They all break eventually. Glocks are known for some spring failures just as are many others. I own 7 CZ's and other than replacing recoil springs every few thousand rounds as a matter of maintenance I've had no failures. My 75BD has over 20k rnds eaten now and has it's original slide stop and TRS. If you read too much into the bashing that goes on in other forums you'll end up afraid to buy anything. Our CZ's are as sound as anything out there.

[jameslovesjammie]

The past two years CZ has eclipsed Glock as the #1 most used pistol at USPSA Production Nationals, and I suspect it will be the same this year.  If they were unreliable, they wouldn't be the most popular in a game where people tend to shoot thousands (to tens of thousands) of round each year.

[Grendel]

Didn't some other noob post this same question and thread a little while ago?

[s0nspark]

Didn't some other noob post this same question and thread a little while ago?

Perhaps, but I don't recall seeing it. At least it wasn't the same person.

I really hate the amount of BS that gets circulated without any fact checking on the Internet ... It makes it very hard for those new to a platform or shooting in general to get solid info. (That is why I avoid FB now LOL)

Many brand-specific forums are no help either, being little more than a place for consumers to fervently pat each other on the back for their wise choices. I'm glad we have a more honest and open community here!

[montigre]

I have not seen a similar post since I have been following the CZ forum for the past 2 months, but it may have been done. 

I was just wondering if there was credence to the comments that I need to factor in as a new CZ owner or not.  sOnspark's reply makes a lot of sense to me and mirrors what I have come to believe about the CZ 75s. 

I have no qualms about purchasing normal wear n tear parts for the gun I plan to use for target work--I already do that for my target archery gear, but if there were valid additional issues that may not be common knowledge that I would have to apply to the SD/HD gun, then I wanted to know about them as well. 

[s0nspark]

I have no qualms about purchasing normal wear n tear parts for the gun I plan to use for target work--I already do that for my target archery gear, but if there were valid additional issues that may not be common knowledge that I would have to apply to the SD/HD gun, then I wanted to know about them as well.

Yep - that is exactly how I look at it too. Everything is a balance and I am more than comfortable with the slight trade-offs I may make with the CZ platform because of the results. I also like that CZs are fairly easy to work on... even for a mechanically-challenged soul like me.

FWIW, I've taken the occasional jab on the PF forums for choosing CZ for carry. (I did not, however, when I was carrying an HK - hmm, go figure.) I don't let it bother me... they presumably chose what worked best for them and so did I.

One thing that does really gets under my skin, though, is the amount of mindless Glock worship you see on a lot of forums. PF used to be different but now seems to promote Glocks as much as anyone, which is fine if they meet your needs and work reliably for you. For me they did neither

[armoredman]

I think I was active on that forum for about a minute and a half. I'll list the facts as I have personally seen them;
1) All guns are mechanical things and can fail.
2) I haven't had a CZ pistol break on me yet. ONly sort of CZ gun that broke was the firing pin on my wife's dearly departed vz-58 .223 rifle.
3) I've had 3 Glocks fail in front of me, one broken slide under the ejection port, one a mag release failure, and for the life of me I can't remember what happened with the first one many years ago. The broken slide was a rental gun with over 100,000 round through it, the other was a Department qualification sidearm with probably the same if not more rounds through it. It happens.
4) There was, according to what I've been told, a bad batch of slide releases back in the day, and there were several people who experienced slide lock breakage during competition. I haven't heard of it in many years. Not to say it doesn't happen again now and again, see Point 1.
5) I replaced the recoil spring in my P-01 at approximately 10,000 rounds. It showed signs of being very tired. I have spare springs for other pistols and rifles, but I haven't needed to replace anything yet. The CGW tuned P-09 just keeps ripping right along, and the bone stock Phantom is stone cold reliable. The wife's RAMI's and P-01 are still just fine, but they are fired MUCH less than mine.
6) Like I told the gentleman in the Scorpion forum who thought he had a bad CZ barrel, yes, we want to hear about problems, and how they are fixed, we like to hear how CZ-USA handles problems and makes things right. I don't bash any other platform or company, (with the NOTABLE exception of Century Arms International's drunken monkeys destroying perfectly good AK and CETME rifles!), and if something breaks, let's hear about it, like the Scorpion magazine issue. I wanted pics and personal experiences, and we got them. That is real, not rumor or "I heard from a buddy who knew this guy who knew this guy in Cleveland"...
7) I occasionally carry a Smith and Wesson Model 10-8 .38 Special revolver too, and that has also been dead dirt reliable.
I need another cup of coffee...

[Grendel]

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting it was the OP. It's just that the thread content seemed familiar although I can't find it - if it was posted. Meh, I could G.A.S. what the uninformed out there think about CZs.

[bang bang]

what i find so funny is that i can bet that almost every one here and out there has some type of vehicle.

every one of those will have mechanical issues, but you wont see them complaining as much about it as they will a gun.

If you use something long enough, chances are it will need some repairs.

Ive been shooting/collecting since the late 80s and i have had breakages and such in all of my guns.  Most of them i dont shoot since i dont need to, but the ones i have shot, have been repaired and i move on.

having a mechanical engineering degree and working with equipment throughout my limited experience i see failures both big and small happen all of the time. 


when it comes to spares and such thats up to you.

i see it as...

 > if you are a competitor, i would have 1 or 2 spear GUNS.   Easier to swap guns than parts.
 
 > then have some spare parts too so you can fix it after the match.

 > if you feel incomplete without spares for your guns, then go ahead and buy them.  It wont break the bank and if you sleep better at night, more power to you.

 > if the gun(s) aren't made anymore and you use them (alot) then yes, i would buy some spares or maybe a parts gun.


in the end its up to you and how you want to look at your toys.   CZ and many of the other gun mfgs are still in business so having service work done shouldn't be an issue.

good luck

[s0nspark]

1) All guns are mechanical things and can fail.

Amen.

2) I haven't had a CZ pistol break on me yet. ONly sort of CZ gun that broke was the firing pin on my wife's dearly departed vz-58 .223 rifle.

Me either... none of my current ones are super high round counts but I really don't expect any failures that cannot be traced to ammo or dropped mags ;-)

Of course, I regularly clean, inspect and maintain my guns... IMO that goes a long way to heading off breakages. I wonder how many treat their guns like toasters and just expect them to go and go and go...

3) I've had 3 Glocks fail in front of me, one broken slide under the ejection port, one a mag release failure, and for the life of me I can't remember what happened with the first one many years ago. The broken slide was a rental gun with over 100,000 round through it, the other was a Department qualification sidearm with probably the same if not more rounds through it. It happens.

My failures were always failures to feed or eject. Could have been ammo, I guess, but I always used quality factory ammo - no reloads, no steel cased, etc. Add to that the general discomfort I had shooting the guns and the absolute wackiness of the stock trigger and it added up to an easy decision.

4) There was, according to what I've been told, a bad batch of slide releases back in the day, and there were several people who experienced slide lock breakage during competition. I haven't heard of it in many years. Not to say it doesn't happen again now and again, see Point 1.

This actually mirrors what I have heard regarding the stock TRS... things may be better these days. I have just chosen to err on the side of caution and use the CGW TRS and have a spare slide stop on hand.

5) I replaced the recoil spring in my P-01 at approximately 10,000 rounds. It showed signs of being very tired. I have spare springs for other pistols and rifles, but I haven't needed to replace anything yet. The CGW tuned P-09 just keeps ripping right along, and the bone stock Phantom is stone cold reliable. The wife's RAMI's and P-01 are still just fine, but they are fired MUCH less than mine.

I read recently that Mike Pannone has well over 50,000 rounds through one of his P-09s without a single breakage. A well-designed hammer-fired gun is a great thing

[s0nspark]

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting it was the OP. It's just that the thread content seemed familiar although I can't find it - if it was posted. Meh, I could G.A.S. what the uninformed out there think about CZs.

Oh yeah, I know... I just like to check for dupe posts when something seems recent and familiar Some people like to post their question or rant in every subforum LOL

I agree about the uninformed, although I read that as uniformed and to that I would also agree.

[s0nspark]

> if you are a competitor, i would have 1 or 2 spear GUNS.

Did the IDPA rules change??? :-D

[Firemanjones]

I also remember the thread a while back.