vz.58 vs. SAM7SF

[FallenEagle]

Does anyone have any experience with the SAM7SF? I have a couple of vz58 rifles and have enjoyed shooting them. However, lately, I have been contemplating selling off one of D'tecnik rifles to fund the purchase. I am looking for some first hand knowledge and opinions of the sam7sf and how it compares to the vz. I have tried finding comparison videos or blogs but, my searches have turned up empty. I thank you in advance any information. 

[RSR]

CitizenPete might have an arsenal -- not sure if that one in question. 

Most of what I've seen in the way of reviews on it seem to be spotty.  Personally, I'd have a 7.62x39 galil classic built if really wanting a milled receiver AK in that caliber -- or buy one of the 7.62x39 Galil Ace's if you don't mind the polymer lower grip portion and looks. 
DDI has made decent milled AKs as well. 
Don't see the advantage of the extra $400-$500 over stamped Arsenals to make this one worth it.  But Arsenals generally are more than I'd care to pay for a higher end standard AK.

Mentioned in another thread, but VZ58s are pretty awesome carbines.  AKs can be made to be pretty awesome rifles (manual of arms not really suited for carbine use), but given a 16" barrel length for both and both in 7.62x39, there's not really much that an AK can do that the VZ58 can't do better. 

As always, YMMV.

[Horse]

I've got both - they are both great rifles.

[Knife Wounds]

For the Arsenal I enjoy the magazine selection.  If you get the right Sam7 it has a pistol grip safety that I really promote.  I wish I could add one to a few ak's.  I dont get why some people hate on the ak grip safety that is stock on some milled Arsenals.

In the VZ's favor it is a lighter weapon.  Has a nicer recoil impulse in my opinion.  And the safety lever is better.  And lastely its cheaper.

Both will sling 7.62 downrange in a satisfactory manner.

Ive been wanting one of Horse's VZ58 side rails.  If your reading this are they Horse any news on when they will be out?  If they are already out I feel like an idiot for asking!

[Horse]

The DARS rail is not out yet - the machine shop has been too busy making AL chips to switch over to steel. 


Soon I hope.

[MeatAxe]

Not being a fan of folding stocks, I can't answer to that, but I do think the SAM7 is the top of the heap as far as AKs go, this side of a Valmet (but I prefer milled to stamped AKs myself). Apparently, they have improved metallurgy compared to other milled AKs and a thin hammer forged barrel (on Steyr tooling) that is supposedly stiffer and stronger than most AKs and therefore is less muzzle heavy than say a thick-barreled Vepr or a Chinese AK. The action on a SAM7 is very smooth, especially compared to stamped AKs. And of course, the receiver is going to be stiffer and heavier than a stamped AK and therefore potentially more accurate.

SAM7s are pretty bleep accurate for an AK, even I can get 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 yards with SST ammo and a scope. I've found even the SAM7 PISTOL to be more accurate than a lot of AK rifles!

On paper the SAM7 is only one lb. heavier than the CSA Vz, but it feels a lot heavier and soaks more recoil than the Vz, but that may be because I normally use surplus steel mags.

The SAM7 has a better (hammer type) trigger than the squishy Vz striker set up, IMHO. The stock Arsenal trigger is a little gritty out of the box but can be improved with use or with an aftermarket G2 trigger or other US made 922r compliant options (I believe only one of the 3 SAM7 FCG parts are US-made). As a new Vz owner, the trigger (and the stock pistol grip and the low sights) are about the only things I don't care for about the Vz so far.

Of course, any AK is going to have better parts, magazine and aftermarket availability compared to the Vz. A steel Com Bloc AK mag is a weapon in and of itself compared to the light aluminum Vz mag-- you could probably bludgeon someone to death with one if you had to.

The finish on all Arsenal AKs is painted on and is not popular with many users, especially considering the guns' price. It's pretty soft and will come off if subjected to common solvents (e.g. Hoppes #9 or even rubbing alcohol). Arsenal suggests using only CLP Breakfree to clean and lube, but you can find other, better lubes that won't effect the finish. The upside to the Arsenal finish is that you can hit it with a rattle can of Rustoleum low gloss black engine enamel and she looks just like new! Engine enamel may in fact be what Arsenal uses to cover these guns. That's just a cosmetic issue, though, after all, this is a crude, but brutally efficient AK we're talking about!

For some reason, it seems like the Vz gets a lot HOTTER when shooting than the SAM7, but that may be because I don't yet have an aluminum fore end on the Vz.

All things considered, I would say that the Vz is more refined, lighter and handier than the SAM7, but the SAM7 is a proven, reliable workhorse (and has a better trigger and much less recoil). I haven't owned a Vz long enough to attest to its reliability.

You should have both a SAM7 and a Vz58! They are just different flavors in 7.62x39!

[tcammack]

Horse,

Slightly off topic... How is the cheek weld on your zhukov stock adapter with factory irons?  It looks a little higher than the factory fixed stock.

T

[RSR]

I thought that the sam7sf was 1lb heavier than the stamped arsenals, which would put it about 2 lbs heavier than the VZ58.  VZ58 aluminum mags vs steel makes an additional difference.

I also believe AKs are about 1" longer (bare muzzle) than the VZ58 due to a slightly longer receiver.  And then the SAM7SF is even an inch or so longer w/ the longer length stock...  I've seen some complaints about that; however, the Galil world, you have both the IMI Israeli versions and then the South African Vektor versions.  The SA versions have a longer stock, which I prefer.  With the VZ58, AR, etc, the ideal stock length depends on the amount of clothing you're wearing, body armor, etc...  Especially with body armor plates, and inch too short in plain clothes is often perfect if you have BA on...

I like folding stocks for storage, concealment, compactness, etc...  I find that folding the stock and cinching the weapon tight while slung w/ a folded really makes a big difference vs extended -- not having to worry about muzzle in dirt or muzzle catch limbs while in woods/brush, etc...
Shooting a rifle w/ the stock folded is to be avoided whenever possible however...

Triggers on AKs -- with the safety being a bit of pain to transition on and off, I'd prefer a 2 stage trigger actually, but many/most of the AK triggers are single stage affairs at sub 5 lbs once polished... 
The VZ58 while a mediocre trigger overall, I do like it performing a bit like a 2 stage setup.  A bit longer takeup/pretravel than I'd like after reaching reset point, but it's acceptable for minute of man work -- and trigger control (even with a less than ideal trigger) is something that practice and the operator can control for,  unlike inaccuracies inherent in a weapon itself...

Regarding the safety lever -- Galil's come in two versions of safeties, a forward to fire version and a rear to fire version.  The forward to fire version adds an add'l pivot point onto the pistol grip screw lug and then an add'l hinge on the safety lever mechanism itself. This is the semi-auto civilian version only I believe.  The rear to fire was standard and is what is used on military weapons with safe-semi-full auto...  Like the standard AK, all the way back would be full auto, with semi-auto in the middle.  I prefer the rear to fire version actually, and it also matches my VZ58 (Century versions w/ safety fire going to the original semi-auto location as well, instead of the CSA guns that go forward to where the original full auto position was...)

For the folks that don't like it, there's a big group of folks in the AK community that don't believe in adding rails, or optics, etc, to the weapon...  They don't want any changes.  And then there's also the folks that have an established manual of arms that involves the standard safety only, and don't want to confuse or upset that balance by having a feature that is "different" or even if having that feature, they wouldn't use it...  Both are opposed, but for different reasons. 
Even the AR world, there's a big group of folks opposed to any coating but phosphate (some find chrome acceptable since original specs were for that) on the bolt/bolt carrier group...  Or that oppose any treatment but chrome for the bore, etc. 
Bottom line, it's par for the course.

[MeatAxe]

The SAM7 pistols and the side folders have a thumb operated safety like the Galls -- wish they all had it as it is handy. I guess you could modify the ones that don't have it by cutting a small slot in the bottom of the receiver and using the thumb safety parts.

The average AK safety is what it is, I guess you get used to it. Or you can get a Krebs safety or rivet a tab to the existing safety to take it off safety with the trigger finger.

Of course, old Galls, Valmets and even Poly Tech AKs are collectors' items now and pretty expensive and hard to come by these days. I am interested in the updated Galil ACE that's just been re-released (after they had to take back all the guns they sold because of the evil third "machine gun" pin). That looks like that could be a winner, but they cost @ $1700. Also, the accuracy tests of the ACE that I've seen thus far are not all that impressive.

[RSR]

My only AKs excepting Galils are an M92 PAP and AES10B RPK...  The RPK doesn't really need a fast switch safety for its use as an intermediate range weapon...  The M92 would benefit, but the Yugo safeties and standard AK safeties differ -- believe the yugos are slightly longer but for certain, the selector detents on the side of the receiver don't line up.  Krebs didn't make a Yugo version last I checked, so you have to get the rivet tab.

[certifiable]

my VZ2008 is lighter and will outshoot my SAM7SF. Both are great rifles and I not regret purchasing either one