Cz safety ruling

[f2benny]

I have an 85c that has a comp hammer from czc and short reset.   An idpa match inspection resulted in a DQ for being "unsafe".  The reason was the safety worked on SA and not DA.  My appeal to MD was useless.

Has anyone else had to deal with this foolishness before.  How did you convince them the gun was functioning correctly.

[William_Broadus]

I've brought my owners manual along.  Provided the original functioning of the pistol is unchanged by the modifications then there should be no issue.  There are some SO/ROs who don't understand the operating systems of every firearm they check. Good ones will listen, consider the facts and ask others as necessary.

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[Chow89]

While I haven't had this exact problem, I've run into issues lowering the hammer manually on a CZ. The ROs at IDPA matches always seem to have issue with it.

What specific rule did they DQ you on?

8.1.7.5 says you can't disconnect or disable a safety mechanism. Your safety actually was working properly. The only CZ's that can activate the safety when the hammer is down are heavily modified ones.

In addition it shouldn't matter if you shot in SSP, which I assume you did, 8.2.1.2.4 gives the shooter discretion to activate a Manuel safety on a hammer down start.

Sounds to me that the administrative staff at the match are either incompetent (CZ's are widely used in IDPA) or purposely singling out CZ's for DQ. Were their any other CZ shooters at the match who hand an issue? Regardless though I think this situation warrants a stern email to IDPA HQ.

[1SOW]

Unfortunately,  what they said above is commonly true.  LOCAL match RO's often don't know the sports rules.

Having a copy of the rules with you,  or the sections appropriate for your CZ is a smart thing.  USPSA has a small inexpensive handbook that has everything.  I don't know if IDPA has something similar.  I've only had to use mine once to correct an RO,  but have used it a few times when other things were questioned when I was was acting as a RO.

[WxGuy]

Send a detailed report of the incident to IDPA HQ along with a copy of the manual if requested.  They know the CZ brand (many folks shoot them) and you should have no problem getting a document from them to show any MD if challenged.  Good luck.

[motosapiens]

why does it seem that when an official totally makes something up, it's always IDPA?

[montigre]

why does it seem that when an official totally makes something up, it's always IDPA?

Comments like these cannot be very good for the sport. 

I just picked up a CZ Shadow Tac II for future competitions and have yet to decide if I will focus on USPSA or IDPA competitions and find it quite disconcerting that members from both organizations seem to have these issues with the other.

Just leaves a newbie with a sour taste....

[Chow89]

why does it seem that when an official totally makes something up, it's always IDPA?

Comments like these cannot be very good for the sport. 

I just picked up a CZ Shadow Tac II for future competitions and have yet to decide if I will focus on USPSA or IDPA competitions and find it quite disconcerting that members from both organizations seem to have these issues with the other.

Just leaves a newbie with a sour taste....

Every sport has its issues. Mention popper calibration around USPSA shooters and watch the furry erupt. IDPA gets the rap for being too subjective though. These issues only really come up the more competitive your trying to be. If your there to have fun, you rarely run into problems.

[Tanners Owner]

I agree it sucks, but keep in mind these SOs, ROs & MDs are all volunteers & are human. We make mistakes & to know each guns attributes while keeping the stage safe & ensuring the other rules are applied isn't easy. If I made a bad call due to faulty understanding of the rules, I've always corrected the score, offered a reshoot if applicable & apologized to the shooter.

I'd recommend showing the MD & SO at a future date the specific rules & manual.

I too shoot a CZ ,P09 in my case, with hammer decocked as the start position.

[motosapiens]

why does it seem that when an official totally makes something up, it's always IDPA?

Comments like these cannot be very good for the sport. 

I just picked up a CZ Shadow Tac II for future competitions and have yet to decide if I will focus on USPSA or IDPA competitions and find it quite disconcerting that members from both organizations seem to have these issues with the other.

Just leaves a newbie with a sour taste....

Every sport has its issues. Mention popper calibration around USPSA shooters and watch the furry erupt. IDPA gets the rap for being too subjective though. These issues only really come up the more competitive your trying to be. If your there to have fun, you rarely run into problems.

lol, there are like 7 people that care about popper calibration. they are just loud.

fwiw, I started in IDPA. After I started winning matches I tried USPSA too and found it more challenging and fun. We are fortunate to have excellent IDPA clubs in my area, so we rarely have the problem with tribal rules and making things up and intentionally trying to screw over faster and more skilled shooters, but I still found that after the training wheels came off I enjoyed uspsa more.

[1SOW]

If you want to stir up a hornets nest,  bring it up at the shooters' meeting.  This will get it standardized with all the ROs,  hopefully with no hard feelings if you present the issue tactfully with rule book in hand.. 

[MontanaCZ]

Years ago when I started USPSA (no IDPA in the State) with my 75B, the RO's would get all upset about manually lowering the hammer. With a lot more CZ's now, not so much an issue. I will say those same RO's, who were perfectly fine now with me doing that, had an issue again when it was a woman doing the same. People can be funny about some things.

I shoot a LOT of 3Gun, and different matches have different rules with regards to handguns. Some allow mag and chambered, holstered.  Others are mag inserted and holstered only if you are not starting with the pistol. I finally just went to mag inserted and holstered, not chambered unless I am starting with pistol.  I had a couple of RO's complain to me since I did not chamber at a match that allowed it, even if you were not starting with the pistol. Since I practiced that way, drawing and racking the slide were second nature, so if I chambered I would most often eject that round when I draw. Funny how in being safer (in a sense) would make them all weird about it.  Funny, this year that same club has gone to empty chamber starts too, which is causing issues with the other shooters used to the other way.

[CZ Homer222]

I've seen a guy get DQ'd for his Smith and Wesson M&P Pro trigger safety not functioning properly. 

They don't mess around on inspections.  What stinks is that he clearly didn't know how the gun should properly function. 

I keep a PDF of the IDPA rulebook on my phone as well as an owners manual to each of my guns.  Perhaps you can do that and reference the owner's manual. 

I've never been DQ'd and I would be pretty hot for getting wrongly DQ'd at a tiered match.  Especially given the cost to enter the events.

[Pynckone]

My jaundiced view of IDPA is, if its not a Glock, you have an issue.