keeping mags loaded

[Bpolcyn2]

I'm really interested in hearing what CZ's comments are on this!

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Have ya'll actually seen this advice from CZ?  I asked him where he thinks atomized oil from the action goes...

"We advise customers to not put lubricants, cleaners or anything else containing an accelerant on our magazines as, with the vast majority of clear polymers, it will weaken the polymer and cause cracking to occur rapidly.  It is best to leave your magazines dry and only clean them with a dry nylon brush.

 

Thank you,

Andy

 

CZ-USA

Warranty Gunsmith

1-800-955-4486 ext 336"

I had a similar thought.  Even if you don't oil mags directly, which I don't, they invariably are going to get dirt and oil on them during use or even during cleaning.  At this point I'm curious to see if the ballistol causes any degredation over the control.

[copenhagen]

48 hour update:  Ballistol and Control still going strong.   2 of the 3 Militec-1 mags have now experienced catastrophic failure, with the 3rd not far behind.

[copenhagen]

...lol...

[tcoz]

It may be too early to come to an absolute conclusion but it's beginning to look like the mystery of the cracked magazines might be on its way to being solved.  Copenhagen designed a simple but effective test and I'm impressed and surprised by the results.  Well done sir. 

[ksuchewie]

I've never oiled a mag, except my metal ak mags after scrubbing cosmoline off.  Perhaps this is why I haven't had any issues.

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[nitesite]

As far as atomized oil in the action getting on the upper part of the magazine, why not just use grease on the bolt rails? 

Every work gun I use (5) has no oil, only grease.  Works great.

[copenhagen]

As far as atomized oil in the action getting on the upper part of the magazine, why not just use grease on the bolt rails? 

Every work gun I use (5) has no oil, only grease.  Works great.

Grease has oil in it.  CZ needs to find out what common additives in some lubricants are creating these adverse reactions.   I'm no chemist.

[tcoz]

I use Mobil 1 synthetic grease on the bolt rails of all my guns.  Grease is really just a much less viscous oil but I would think there would be less atomization which is why it's used.

[majulook]

As far as atomized oil in the action getting on the upper part of the magazine, why not just use grease on the bolt rails? 

Every work gun I use (5) has no oil, only grease.  Works great.

Grease has oil in it.  CZ needs to find out what common additives in some lubricants are creating these adverse reactions.   I'm no chemist.

CZ recommends the following lubrication's and grease for the Scorpion EVO, These would probably have the least adverse reactions.

Brunox Spray
Ballistol Spray
Cinol G3

[copenhagen]

72 hrs...Ballistol and Control holding up well.  Last MILITEC-1 looks like she will explode any minute:

[tcoz]

I'd sure like to know what the components of Militec-1 are but the SDS only says "Proprietary synthetic industrial lubricant"

[st381183]

I truly appreciate Copenhagen's experiment and the expense he is incurring. Is the assumption that all cracked mags are a result of oil?  Or militec-1 (which I have never heard of before this thread).  It's an interesting experiment but in 30 years of shooting semi automatic weapons I've never oiled a magazine or seen someone oil a mag.  If oiling mags is the issue then I'm GTG with my mags.  The scientific method would require us to consider all options not just this one which is very interesting in its results.  Can anyone who experienced cracked mags let us know if they oiled their mags?  I'm more inclined to believe there's an issue with the polymer formula that gets compounded by certain oil formulas.  I hope CZ is paying attention.

[tcoz]

I've never oiled a mag (spring) or suffered a cracked mag either but based on the advice given by CZ ("We advise customers to not put lubricants, cleaners or anything else containing an accelerant on our magazines as, with the vast majority of clear polymers, it will weaken the polymer and cause cracking to occur rapidly.  It is best to leave your magazines dry and only clean them with a dry nylon brush."), the known fact that certain types of polymers and certain chemicals are incompatible, and the observation that only the three mags oiled with Militec-1 have suffered catastrophic failures, I now feel pretty safe in saying that Militec-1 is incompatible with the CZ mags.  If these are the same mags that CZ has been making for this gun for years or the same composition then I'm hesitant to say that there's an inherent flaw in the magazines or the polymer.
I would definitely like to know how many people who have had mag failures lubricated or oiled them with any product, not only Militec-1.

[mtl111]

As I've stated before, ive never oiled my mags and always left them loaded. I've only had 1 mag that showed cracks and they were 2 hairline ones. Most of my mags are bleep near impossible to fully load. I usually end up 1 or 2 rounds short. Yes I've tried many times and no i dont have sissy weak fingers either! Lol
I decided to try cutting 2 coils off the spring in one of my mags, before it would only take 28 rounds, now it takes 30. I'll give this one a try and see if there are any issues with feeding...i doubt there will be. There is alot of pressure exerted on those feed lips with these springs. That has to be a possible cause of cracks, we definitely know NOT to get Millitec anywhere near polymer now!

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[RSR]

I've never oiled a mag (spring) or suffered a cracked mag either but based on the advice given by CZ ("We advise customers to not put lubricants, cleaners or anything else containing an accelerant on our magazines as, with the vast majority of clear polymers, it will weaken the polymer and cause cracking to occur rapidly.  It is best to leave your magazines dry and only clean them with a dry nylon brush."), the known fact that certain types of polymers and certain chemicals are incompatible, and the observation that only the three mags oiled with Militec-1 have suffered catastrophic failures, I now feel pretty safe in saying that Militec-1 is incompatible with the CZ mags.  If these are the same mags that CZ has been making for this gun for years or the same composition then I'm hesitant to say that there's an inherent flaw in the magazines or the polymer.
I would definitely like to know how many people who have had mag failures lubricated or oiled them with any product, not only Militec-1.

Read here about militec, you don't want it near steel or polymer:
https://looserounds.com/2012/10/21/militec-and-chloride/

Now those things are great and grand??if they were true, sadly they are not. Here is something you probably have not read but should- http://books.google.com/books?output=html_text&id=sDZonEVMgb4C&dq=militec+banned&jtp=1.  This goes over pretty well how Militec-1 truly performed over time as it was tested numerous times, its a good read and well worth your time. If you want the short version?Militec-1 has never passed military trials and when it was awarded a NSN the company that awarded it admitted to basically cheating to let them get the pass.

Another thing you probably have not read or heard about is that Militec-1 has Chlorinated esters in it. Now if you don?t know Chlorinated esters when combined with metals that are placed under high tensile pressure(ala firearms being fired) will and does lead to stress cracks, this is a phenomena called CSCC(Chloride Stress Corrosion Cracking).

Here is a great article on it and what happens. http://www.corrosionist.com/what_is_chloride_stress_corrosion_cracking.htm

This is a big reason Militec-1 should never be recommended for firearms, the area of the bolt will be subjected to heat, pressure, and stress all of this combined with the chlorinated esters in Militec-1 can and have caused premature wear on bolts.

When you begin to look at lubricants you should make sure to really dig into it online and make sure that it does not contain any chlorinated esters in them.