Bushnell TRS-25 - Good or Bad?

[RSR]

I have a TRS-25 on my scorpion carbine. Liked it so much that I bought another for my AR9, but it had a shifted image. Sent it back, second one came with this problem too. So then I went with the PA microdot, and it too has a shifted image. My first TRS is still the best one.
I *would* probably like the PA better since the dot doesn't disappear at all (TRS dot disappears in upper left corner), but otherwise they are basically identical.

I think you're discussing parallax, and all optics including all red dots have it -- even Aimpoints and Eotechs... 
The way you eliminate the parallax concern is by consistent cheek weld.  And no, just b/c you can see the red dot and shoot at weird locations does not mean that is the proper way to use it...  It is more forgiving than irons with sight alignment, but that does not mean you throw sight alignment out the window. 
See the blue section on page 16 here: http://www.vikingtactics.de/images/media/press/AR15-Roll_Over.pdf

Also, with any red dot, turn the brightness down to the lowest setting visible for the most precise shot placement...

[RSR]

I had a TRS-25 on one of my AR rifles but sold it because I found the emitter at the 4 o'clock position too distracting and interfered with cowitness.  That being said, you probably can't find a better RDS at that price point.  I also found the 3 MOA dot to be the perfect size for my old eyes.

Primary arms discusses their relative high profile emitters...  They say the larger profile is additional adhesive which better secures the emitter for long term reliability.   I believe primary arms still offers red dots with emitters at different locations depending on where the power knob is located... 

[RSR]

I am VERY fond of my TRS-25! So is George.

I think George is confused as to why anyone would restrict/remove the fun switch...

[jrodicus]

I have a TRS-25 on my scorpion carbine. Liked it so much that I bought another for my AR9, but it had a shifted image. Sent it back, second one came with this problem too. So then I went with the PA microdot, and it too has a shifted image. My first TRS is still the best one.
I *would* probably like the PA better since the dot doesn't disappear at all (TRS dot disappears in upper left corner), but otherwise they are basically identical.

I think you're discussing parallax, and all optics including all red dots have it -- even Aimpoints and Eotechs... 
The way you eliminate the parallax concern is by consistent cheek weld.  And no, just b/c you can see the red dot and shoot at weird locations does not mean that is the proper way to use it...  It is more forgiving than irons with sight alignment, but that does not mean you throw sight alignment out the window. 
See the blue section on page 16 here: http://www.vikingtactics.de/images/media/press/AR15-Roll_Over.pdf

Also, with any red dot, turn the brightness down to the lowest setting visible for the most precise shot placement...

several
Nope, not it. Had Eotechs, other TRS25s, several el cheap red dots, 1-x variable scopes, aimpiints, etc, and none but the latest TRS and the PA microdot have had this issue.

[steerclr]

As far as parallax goes, since my set-up is co-witnessed I leave the rear peep sight up and look through it into the TRS-25 at the red dot sitting on the front post.  I would think this technique should keep my eye in the same spot when using the red dot at distance.

[RSR]

I have a TRS-25 on my scorpion carbine. Liked it so much that I bought another for my AR9, but it had a shifted image. Sent it back, second one came with this problem too. So then I went with the PA microdot, and it too has a shifted image. My first TRS is still the best one.
I *would* probably like the PA better since the dot doesn't disappear at all (TRS dot disappears in upper left corner), but otherwise they are basically identical.

I think you're discussing parallax, and all optics including all red dots have it -- even Aimpoints and Eotechs... 
The way you eliminate the parallax concern is by consistent cheek weld.  And no, just b/c you can see the red dot and shoot at weird locations does not mean that is the proper way to use it...  It is more forgiving than irons with sight alignment, but that does not mean you throw sight alignment out the window. 
See the blue section on page 16 here: http://www.vikingtactics.de/images/media/press/AR15-Roll_Over.pdf

Also, with any red dot, turn the brightness down to the lowest setting visible for the most precise shot placement...

several
Nope, not it. Had Eotechs, other TRS25s, several el cheap red dots, 1-x variable scopes, aimpiints, etc, and none but the latest TRS and the PA microdot have had this issue.

Then I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to "shifted image."

[RSR]

As far as parallax goes, since my set-up is co-witnessed I leave the rear peep sight up and look through it into the TRS-25 at the red dot sitting on the front post.  I would think this technique should keep my eye in the same spot when using the red dot at distance.

Yes, it will.  Also, doing that also helps folks with eye issues see the red dot as crisper -- something about how the peep controls light entering the eye, helping to focus the light entering the eye or something to that effect.

But doing so will slow down the red dot vs not using rear sight, and make gaining sight picture take longer...  The front sight and red dot alignment alone is usually sufficient to knock parallax errors out of the top 3 reasons for rounds not going where you want them too...

[DirtyMike]

not a bad rds, i ran one on an ak with ultimak rail(gets really hot) with no problems for a while and move it to a shotty where its holding up fine

[jrodicus]

I have a TRS-25 on my scorpion carbine. Liked it so much that I bought another for my AR9, but it had a shifted image. Sent it back, second one came with this problem too. So then I went with the PA microdot, and it too has a shifted image. My first TRS is still the best one.
I *would* probably like the PA better since the dot doesn't disappear at all (TRS dot disappears in upper left corner), but otherwise they are basically identical.

I think you're discussing parallax, and all optics including all red dots have it -- even Aimpoints and Eotechs... 
The way you eliminate the parallax concern is by consistent cheek weld.  And no, just b/c you can see the red dot and shoot at weird locations does not mean that is the proper way to use it...  It is more forgiving than irons with sight alignment, but that does not mean you throw sight alignment out the window. 
See the blue section on page 16 here: http://www.vikingtactics.de/images/media/press/AR15-Roll_Over.pdf

Also, with any red dot, turn the brightness down to the lowest setting visible for the most precise shot placement...

several
Nope, not it. Had Eotechs, other TRS25s, several el cheap red dots, 1-x variable scopes, aimpiints, etc, and none but the latest TRS and the PA microdot have had this issue.

Then I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to "shifted image."

Quite literally, this:



It has zero impact on shooting IF I shoot one-eye closed, but both eyes open, and I see a sort of 'double image'. I get that this could be me (like an eye dominance issue), but the fact that one TRS (and many other red dots) don't have this issue at all, and a couple do, leads me to believe there's something in the optics causing it.

[RSR]

So the dot doesn't move with left eye closed but moves with left eye open? 

IIRC, TRS is 3 MOA dot and the current gen primary arms are all 2 MOA dots...  So the TRS is 50% larger than the primary arms... 

If it's a matter of one eye closed vs one eye open, and when considering the MOA size of the red dots, then yes -- I'd agree it's a brain/perception or eye issue.

[jrodicus]

So the dot doesn't move with left eye closed but moves with left eye open? 

IIRC, TRS is 3 MOA dot and the current gen primary arms are all 2 MOA dots...  So the TRS is 50% larger than the primary arms... 

If it's a matter of one eye closed vs one eye open, and when considering the MOA size of the red dots, then yes -- I'd agree it's a brain/perception or eye issue.

Nothing about the "dot moving". It's a shifted image.
A brain/perception issue doesn't explain why only 2 sights out of the dozens I've tried have this issue (regardless of dot size).
Got another TRS25 on the way - we'll see if it has (or I have...) the same issue.

[RSR]

If looking through it w/ one eye the dot stays in place, but when you open the other to shoot with both eyes open the dot moves (with nothing else moving), I question how you can attribute it to the optic.

Again, what are the MOA dot sizes on the optics you do and don't see this issue?  Is there a difference there?  I suspect there might be.

Also, tried this with a rear peep sight up as well?  Etc?

[jrodicus]

If looking through it w/ one eye the dot stays in place, but when you open the other to shoot with both eyes open the dot moves (with nothing else moving), I question how you can attribute it to the optic.

Again, what are the MOA dot sizes on the optics you do and don't see this issue?  Is there a difference there?  I suspect there might be.

Also, tried this with a rear peep sight up as well?  Etc?

Perhaps I'm just not explaining it correctly. The dot isn't moving. The whole image is shifted when looking through the glass - this happens when the optic is turned off. It has nothing to do with the dot size. I can attribute it to the optic because it has only ever happened with two specific examples - other versions (of the same bleep optic) don't have this issue AT ALL. I recognize that I am probably more sensitive to the issue than others for whatever reason, but it seems to be a manufacturing tolerance issue with the glass IMO.

[ItsRainingLead]

I have the TRS-25 on my Scorpion and I find it plenty accurate for the ranges and things I do with it. I'm very comfortable with it at 25 to 100 yards shooting a variety of silhouette targets. I did, however, pull the front and rear iron sights off as I did not like the cowitness.

I've put maybe 750 rounds through mine with no perceptible shift in zero.

[Asylum9]

What version do you guys have? From what I've been reading the original had gold lettering on the side and the redesigned version has white lettering. From what I've been reading the white label wasn't built to the same standard and they moved the led in the site to the 6 o'clock position. Can anyone confirm this?