Bought a D-Technik VZ58, had some questions.

[chrisofpa]

Hello again, I have been dwelling in the background for awhile now, my last post was probably 2 years ago when I purchased my VZ 2008. Anyway, I went to pick up a a Daniel Defense AR-15 at my local firearm dealer and he had a D-Technik VZ-58 hanging on the wall, it was a trade in and he wanted $800 for it so I bought it. I knew D-Technik was one of the imported VZ-58's with mil-spec parts, the one I always wanted but I never seen one locally for such a good price. I know a little about these rifles, like the barrel is CHF/chrome lined etc but I wanted to learn some more about the rifle and inquire about upgrades.

First, this is a D-Technik but I noticed people call them CSA's (Czech Small Arms), is D-Technik now called CSA? Second, does someone have a spec list for this rifle? It's not really important but I would like to know the little details about my rifle. Third, does this specific VZ-58 variant have any weak points or parts that should be upgraded? I heard these rifles have a plastic trigger group which I am not too pleased with, that's something I would like to upgrade, what parts would you guys recommend?

Forth, I noticed this rifle has a thread protector welded to the front sight post and the bayonet lug has been ground off. The bayonet lug isn't a big deal but I want to add a muzzle device to this rifle, I am hoping this rifle is like my Yugo M77, that if I grind off the weld the thread protector will come off and I will find usable threads. It looks like a working retention pin is already in place. Worse case scenario, can I find a replacement front sight post in the same color as my rifle? I also noticed some red stuff on the base of my front sight post, I am kinda concerned it's not a factory thing, I am concerned it's red loctite....

Next, I really want to add an optic to this rifle, I see on Zahal they make an optics rail/mount for this rifle, is that something my gunsmith can add to this rifle without issue? I really want to put a Meprolight optic on this rifle, the one with fiber optic/tritium powered dot. I would only consider this option since I love the beaver barf furniture. Last, can you guys recommend a good place to pick up quality magazines, sight adjustment tool and cleaning kit? Ideally someone that charges a reasonable price.

My plans for this rifle is to make it into a fighting rifle, so quality/durability is important to me.

[chrisofpa]

One additional question, what's a good trade in price on my VZ-2008? I added an original beaver barf stock to it and took the folder off.

[RSR]

$800 is a good and fair price.  You can probably get $500-600 for your VZ2008 these days depending on condition.  With a quite probable post-election panic, 1.5-2x that amount is quite possible.  If you can afford to keep your VZ2008, then do so.  Make it truck/trunk/trainer gun, etc.  Or sell it to a family member, etc.  I try not to sell guns unless they're just plumb unreliable and I don't have time or interest in troubleshooting -- also if standardizing and dropping caliber/weapon system as I like spare parts and mags both stacked deep, but then that money is going right back into firearms and components... 

Main thing with the Dtechs are that they're probably missing the bayo lug on the fsb, and they have the puddle welded muzzle extension.  If you can only have one muzzle device, I'd personally go w/ the special forces as it's both a flash hider and a brake/comp.  For fsb, I'd personally look for a surplus open eared one instead of the new production closed loop one that Czechpoint sells -- your gun however so personal preference.  (Actually reading further in your post, you note both of these features...)  So to your question, search the forum here for pics.  There are puddle welds and threads will need cleaned and probably re-chased, but yes they are there.   Red is paint from the factory to mark the factory zero location.

Rear railed top cover, I have two KingGun ones left in my classified (also have a few Spec Forces Brakes too if interested), and the Zahal ones cost 50% more.  All Zahal stuff is outrageously priced actually.  KingGun ones require minor fitting as they are made to fit tight to ensure repeatability when removing and reinstalling. 

Trigger for 922r see CNC Warrior/Bonesteel for a metal fcg.  If you google Dtechnic 922r or search here (or search here via google: "site:czfirearms.us/index.php?board=67.0 search words"), you'll find the full list of 922r parts...

[chrisofpa]

$800 is a good and fair price.  You can probably get $500-600 for your VZ2008 these days depending on condition.  With a quite probable post-election panic, 1.5-2x that amount is quite possible.  If you can afford to keep your VZ2008, then do so.  Make it truck/trunk/trainer gun, etc.  Or sell it to a family member, etc.  I try not to sell guns unless they're just plumb unreliable and I don't have time or interest in troubleshooting -- also if standardizing and dropping caliber/weapon system as I like spare parts and mags both stacked deep, but then that money is going right back into firearms and components... 

Main thing with the Dtechs are that they're probably missing the bayo lug on the fsb, and they have the puddle welded muzzle extension.  If you can only have one muzzle device, I'd personally go w/ the special forces as it's both a flash hider and a brake/comp.  For fsb, I'd personally look for a surplus open eared one instead of the new production closed loop one that Czechpoint sells -- your gun however so personal preference.  (Actually reading further in your post, you note both of these features...)  So to your question, search the forum here for pics.  There are puddle welds and threads will need cleaned and probably re-chased, but yes they are there.   Red is paint from the factory to mark the factory zero location.

Rear railed top cover, I have two KingGun ones left in my classified (also have a few Spec Forces Brakes too if interested), and the Zahal ones cost 50% more.  All Zahal stuff is outrageously priced actually.  KingGun ones require minor fitting as they are made to fit tight to ensure repeatability when removing and reinstalling. 

Trigger for 922r see CNC Warrior/Bonesteel for a metal fcg.  If you google Dtechnic 922r or search here (or search here via google: "site:czfirearms.us/index.php?board=67.0 search words"), you'll find the full list of 922r parts...

Thanks for sharing that info, maybe I will sit on the VZ 2008. Main reason I am selling the 2008 is it's kinda redundant  (In my mind) to have two rifles that are setup exactly the same and I really want to use it's sale to fund a PTR-91. Now, if I could setup the 2008 as a DMR (1-6 power optic and a bi-pod) I would consider keeping it since it would serve a different role, I am unsure if a 1-6 power can be mounted on a rifle like this. I am not really a big fan of selling firearms anyway, in fact this would be the first firearm I ever planned on selling.

I can live without a bayonet lug but my personal requirement is for a muzzle device, I would prefer to leave the FSB alone if I can attach a muzzle device without issue. I did a little research after making this post and it seems the thread protector is a barrel extention and if it's removed the barrel is less than 16 inches, an ATF no-no. To make the situation worse, CSA won't remove it and permanently install a muzzle device of your choice. I am kinda concerned my gunsmith won't do the job now considering the situation. I would have to find someone who can properly install a muzzle device in a proper fashion as not to upset the ATF.

I will look into this "King Gun" rail cover, I always had concerns with dust cover mounted optics, I always felt with AK's and 58's the receiver mounted rail was the most secure way of mounting an optic. I might take you up on your items once I do some research.

Thanks.

[RSR]

If you purchased the VZ2008 when it was super cheap a couple years back, you purchased it for $400 or less, including a couple mags.  So it's true price was basically the same as you'd pay for a well-used VZ58 surplus parts kit today ($300) -- or more if you account for the price of the intact receiver and barrel... 
I like redundancy, especially for more unique weapon systems like the VZ58.  Vs spare parts, your VZ2008 also functions...

Yes, you can setup a VZ58 as a DMR, but you'd need to run a fixed magnification optic most likely so as to not have cases hitting it on ejection.

Replacing the FSB is a $30-40 part and 15 minute repair, and it allows bipods, bayonets, and FAB actually makes a flashlight mount that attaches there as well.  Since you have to have permanently affixed muzzle device, I would just have gunsmith change out fsb when pinning and spot welding muzzle device.  One of those pay twice deals where you're ahead to just bite the bullet, especially if this is a "forever" gun.
The benefit of special forces brake is that the inner portion works as flashider and can be used alone.  The outer sleeve is a brake, and a very balanced one at that, that can be removed and reinstalled even if the inner portion is permanently affixed in place.
It's not a violation of any law to remove and replace a barrel extension.  You just have to permanently affix a new muzzle device in place when removing the existing one.  Any component gunsmith will do this and will do so without reservation.  If you remove the extension and take it to the range and otherwise use it/don't proactively and deliberately comply with the intent of the law -- that's when you can get in trouble...  Don't spook yourself.  Just like FFL transfers, it's sometimes a painful process that on the surface sort of makes you feel like you're doing something wrong, but you aren't...

The quality of dustcover mounts between AKs and the available VZ58s are quite different.  VZ58 railed top covers are much more robust and rigid than any AK I've seen, including my Galils which all have rear irons sights mounted to top covers...  VZ58 ones all clamp to milled receiver in various fashion, are milled or cast rather than stamped, and rails are integral to the rest of the topcover.  Czech engineering is solid.

The main advantage of the PTR91s is super cheap mags, still sub $5.  However, if you dent the side of the upper receiver, the weapon won't function.  For DMR, the HK91/G3s have pretty much the worst recoil of all .308 battle rifles, which isn't great for precision and also isn't great for optics holding zero...  Mounting optics is also a pain even if you opt for a railed version of the PTR91. 
For about the same price you get one of the Aero precision.308 with no furniture from Brownells, or build your own for less...  My cool factor .308 is the FAL but I'm delaying purchasing that until after an AR variant in a precision/DMR setup.  I think I've decided on the Rock River version though since it takes FAL mags rather than the SR25s...  I'm not that committed to .308 ARs beyond the specific precision/DMR use case...  Otherwise, I believe FALs or Galils/.308 AKs to be better -- more reliable and more robust -- general purpose .308 battle rifles...

[Brasky]

One additional question, what's a good trade in price on my VZ-2008? I added an original beaver barf stock to it and took the folder off.

If you plan on trading it into a dealer, don't expect more than $300 for it.

If you sell it yourself you may get $550-650. Personally I would keep it as a backup or for spare parts

[MeatAxe]

If it's not already drilled and tapped and had an optic side rail mounted, as long as it's a D-Technik or CSA mfg. rifle, you can send it to Czechpoint and have that work done for @ $80, which would be  preferable to a top cover or hand guard mounted optic:

https://www.czechpoint-usa.com/receiver-side-rail-installed?l=4

Hell of a deal!

[RSR]

preferable to a top cover or hand guard mounted optic

Don't agree on that part -- notably heavier than railed top covers or railed handguards that also assist with barrel cooling/reducing handguardheat, changes the sight plane and cheek weld, rear mount red dot limits field of view, adds unnecessary holes and according weakness to the receiver, and prevents the installation of ambi safeties.  And these just the drawbacks that immediately come to mind...

[RSR]

Thinking further -- if wanting max accuracy in 7.62x39, the CZ527 in bolt action is very appealing and on my buy list... 

Also some folks have done sniper/DMR/accurized SKSes relatively cheaply and that would be a pretty cost effective platform for that type of modification as well.

If starting in .308 clean with a limited budget and wanting max accuracy, take a look at the Tikka bolt actions -- the lightweights in particular.  Conceptually, you could carry both a intermediate caliber carbine (5.56, 7.62x39) and the Tikka lightweight bolt carbine and have much greater capabilities (range in which you could engage) and firepower (rounds per weight) by carrying two guns than just one .308 battle rifle and accompanying mags...  Since Nutnfancy is so prominent lately, it becomes a "philosophy of use" decision, but two weapons does allow you to fulfill all needed capabilities, especially if your "philosophy of use" involves a rather small team where everyone has to be a rifleman in addition to any specialties... 

[MeatAxe]

preferable to a top cover or hand guard mounted optic

Don't agree on that part -- notably heavier than railed top covers or railed handguards that also assist with barrel cooling/reducing handguardheat, changes the sight plane and cheek weld, rear mount red dot limits field of view, adds unnecessary holes and according weakness to the receiver, and prevents the installation of ambi safeties.  And these just the drawbacks that immediately come to mind...

Well, by golly, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on those points. Some time you might want to try one of Horse's excellent RS Regulate mounts -- light, strong, low profile and hold zero even after removal.

Nothing says you can't use a railed hand guard (like my Bonesteel unit) just because you're using the side optic rail. Just more options for lights, sling mounts, forward pistol grips, etc., if you want them. Plus the stock hand guard does a piss poor job of dissipating heat.

I seem to do fine with any Aimpoint sight as far as field of view and peripheral vision and 3D target acquisition (both eyes open). Can't stand forward hand guard mounted optics by comparison.

As far as drilled & tapped mounting holes for the rail causing weakness in the receiver, I've never seen it or even heard of it, not on milled receivers nor even stamped AK receivers, at least not with sturdy Com Bloc receivers. Conceivably, the side rail might serve to stiffen a stamped AK receiver and make it more accurate.

As far as ambidextrous safeties, those are very few and far between (when you do find them, you have to order from outside the US) and they don't fit CSA rifles anyway, so that's pretty much a moot point with me.

It guess it comes down to personal preference: I prefer a light muzzle and with the optic and weight to the back of the rifle which helps me get on targets faster. Muzzle flip and recoil are cancelled by a good muzzle brake and a recoil compensating buffer tube. Since I use an in-line stock, the elevation of the rear-mounted optic is a bonus for me on the Vz -- not having to strain my neck to get a sight picture.

[RSR]

Milled receivers, any metal imperfections or stress fractures move beyond the microscopic stage and manifest as cracks at points weakness like pin holes or lightening cuts, etc.  Without those extra holes those same cracks would take longer to develop or possibly never begin/never manifest themselves on the gun.  Is a concern?  Your call.  I prefer not to have holes in a receiver that I am not gong to use.  And I think the filler screws look like crap...

I view side rails as more fitting to AKs...  B/c of the milled, rather than stamped receiver, the VZ58 does not have to utilize a side rail mount.  Czech Military did have a side rail mount for the Night Vision VZ58s, but modern Czech military utilized the top covers that allowed the railed top front handguard and the railed top cover to both be on the same plane which is ideal for night vision and optic and other similar co-aligned setups. 

I do not doubt the quality of Horse's mounts and plan to get one in the near future for an RPK. 

The weight argument between the side rail and topcover is undisputable.  I'll need to run the math once Horse's rail is out, but the weight of the KingGUn topcover and the Czechpoint rail and mount was something like 4x the weight of topcover (screws and receiver clamps and spring arm are steel, top cover and rails are milled aluminum).

Are there drawbacks to the top covers and are they perfect?  No.  Do I prefer them all things considered on the VZ58?  Yes.

And ambi safeties are a great upgrade. 

[MeatAxe]

Milled receivers, any metal imperfections or stress fractures move beyond the microscopic stage and manifest as cracks at points weakness like pin holes or lightening cuts, etc.  Without those extra holes those same cracks would take longer to develop or possibly never begin/never manifest themselves on the gun.  Is a concern?  Your call.  I prefer not to have holes in a receiver that I am not gong to use.  And I think the filler screws look like crap...

I view side rails as more fitting to AKs...  B/c of the milled, rather than stamped receiver, the VZ58 does not have to utilize a side rail mount.  Czech Military did have a side rail mount for the Night Vision VZ58s, but modern Czech military utilized the top covers that allowed the railed top front handguard and the railed top cover to both be on the same plane which is ideal for night vision and optic and other similar co-aligned setups. 

I do not doubt the quality of Horse's mounts and plan to get one in the near future for an RPK. 

The weight argument between the side rail and topcover is undisputable.  I'll need to run the math once Horse's rail is out, but the weight of the KingGUn topcover and the Czechpoint rail and mount was something like 4x the weight of topcover (screws and receiver clamps and spring arm are steel, top cover and rails are milled aluminum).

Are there drawbacks to the top covers and are they perfect?  No.  Do I prefer them all things considered on the VZ58?  Yes.

And ambi safeties are a great upgrade.

I've never seen or heard of a Com Bloc stamped or milled AK cracking at the side rail rivets or screws, more likely to get a cracked trunion on a stamped AK at 80,000 to 100,000 rounds -- and that's a lot of rounds, $20,000 to $25,000 worth at Com Bloc prices. I'd assume the milled Vz should stand up at least as well as a stamped AK. Of course, the milled Chinese, Arsenals (with side rails) and even C39s just keep going and going. Last I heard these guys had some milled rental AK receivers going on 300,000+ rounds so I don't see much to worry about hairline cracks @ the side rail:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/06/03/how-many-rounds-can-an-ak-fire-before-it-breaks-down/

I agree an ambidextrous safety would be nice, they just don't make them for the CSA rifles. But if they did make one for CSA guns, it shouldn't be much of a problem to modify the rail to accommodate one. The rail's a pretty stout piece of metal, the base of which protrudes 3/8" from the receiver, so there should be plenty of room to make an ambi safety work, should one ever be produced for CSA / D-techniks rifles.

I'm not understanding why these guys don't make an ambi-safety to fit CSA rifles, which are pretty much the top of the heap as far as semi-auto Vz58s go:

https://www.corwin-arms.com/product/cz-858vz-58-ambi-safety-1

[chrisofpa]

If you purchased the VZ2008 when it was super cheap a couple years back, you purchased it for $400 or less, including a couple mags.  So it's true price was basically the same as you'd pay for a well-used VZ58 surplus parts kit today ($300) -- or more if you account for the price of the intact receiver and barrel... 
I like redundancy, especially for more unique weapon systems like the VZ58.  Vs spare parts, your VZ2008 also functions...

Yes, you can setup a VZ58 as a DMR, but you'd need to run a fixed magnification optic most likely so as to not have cases hitting it on ejection.

Replacing the FSB is a $30-40 part and 15 minute repair, and it allows bipods, bayonets, and FAB actually makes a flashlight mount that attaches there as well.  Since you have to have permanently affixed muzzle device, I would just have gunsmith change out fsb when pinning and spot welding muzzle device.  One of those pay twice deals where you're ahead to just bite the bullet, especially if this is a "forever" gun.
The benefit of special forces brake is that the inner portion works as flashider and can be used alone.  The outer sleeve is a brake, and a very balanced one at that, that can be removed and reinstalled even if the inner portion is permanently affixed in place.
It's not a violation of any law to remove and replace a barrel extension.  You just have to permanently affix a new muzzle device in place when removing the existing one.  Any component gunsmith will do this and will do so without reservation.  If you remove the extension and take it to the range and otherwise use it/don't proactively and deliberately comply with the intent of the law -- that's when you can get in trouble...  Don't spook yourself.  Just like FFL transfers, it's sometimes a painful process that on the surface sort of makes you feel like you're doing something wrong, but you aren't...

The quality of dustcover mounts between AKs and the available VZ58s are quite different.  VZ58 railed top covers are much more robust and rigid than any AK I've seen, including my Galils which all have rear irons sights mounted to top covers...  VZ58 ones all clamp to milled receiver in various fashion, are milled or cast rather than stamped, and rails are integral to the rest of the topcover.  Czech engineering is solid.

The main advantage of the PTR91s is super cheap mags, still sub $5.  However, if you dent the side of the upper receiver, the weapon won't function.  For DMR, the HK91/G3s have pretty much the worst recoil of all .308 battle rifles, which isn't great for precision and also isn't great for optics holding zero...  Mounting optics is also a pain even if you opt for a railed version of the PTR91. 
For about the same price you get one of the Aero precision.308 with no furniture from Brownells, or build your own for less...  My cool factor .308 is the FAL but I'm delaying purchasing that until after an AR variant in a precision/DMR setup.  I think I've decided on the Rock River version though since it takes FAL mags rather than the SR25s...  I'm not that committed to .308 ARs beyond the specific precision/DMR use case...  Otherwise, I believe FALs or Galils/.308 AKs to be better -- more reliable and more robust -- general purpose .308 battle rifles...

Yup, I purchased it back when it went for $399. The main reason I would keep the 2008 is if I can make it fill a different role than the D-Technic I have. I don't know if I can find much value in keeping a rifle that would be using a red dot like I plan with the D-Technic and I am not a big fan of fixed powered optics. It even has the same furniture. What will happen is after I deck out the D-Technic the 2008 will not get used and end up taking up my limited safe space. Plus, I really would like a semi-auto 308 battle rifle with a red dot, I just got a Daniel Defense AR-10 and I plan on going with a Leupold 1-6 power so something for closer range/quicker target acquisition would be desirable. I am even considering a USGI M1 Carbine for purchase, I need the money from the sale of the 2008 and safe space from it's departure for one of these rifles. Spare parts are a good idea but I could probably purchase spare parts that would wear on my D-Technic for not much money.

Could you tell me more about the FSB? Does it have the front sight post? Is in painted in the same color as my D-Technic? If I get this muzzle brake installed can I still use a bayonet with it? The ability to mount a flashlight would be desirable. If you have a link it would be much appreciated. I am happy to hear that temporarily removing the barrel extention isn't a big deal, that is something that I want done ASAP. As for the optics mount, I will have to weigh both options. I am leaning towards sending CSA my rifle for a side rail mount, I find the price very reasonable and to be honest I trust the side mount more.

As for the PTR-91 I like that it so affordable in comparison with most other 308 battle rifles, the magazines are cheap, it is ready to mount optics and I heard it not very picky with ammo. The next nearest choice is the DSA FAL, the base model is $1100. From what I hear they're more finicky with the ammo you feed them and they have no way of mounting optics. Maybe the Springfield M1A Scout would be an option too for around that price? I'd also like to build out a DMR type AR-10 in the future, since you seem to know them what lower would you recommend for an AR-10 build? I'd like to get 2 AR-10 lowers for future builds, ones that can take the Magpul mags like my Daniel Defense AR-10.

Talking about other 308 rifles, I have been sitting on a Yugo M77 for 2 years now, it's an AK pattern 308 rifle. I have to purchase some CCSPEC magazines for it, I am still deciding what I want to do with it, I want to put the original Yugo wood on it (I have the adapter for a wood buttstock) but I have no idea what I want to do for an optic. Maybe a Russian magnified optic, possibly a 4-16 power scope? I am undecided....

By the way, can you share the link for the optics rail cover and muzzle device you're selling? I couldn't find them...

[chrisofpa]

One additional question, what's a good trade in price on my VZ-2008? I added an original beaver barf stock to it and took the folder off.

If you plan on trading it into a dealer, don't expect more than $300 for it.

If you sell it yourself you may get $550-650. Personally I would keep it as a backup or for spare parts

Thanks, I have some interested in the rifle for $500, so that's right in the middle.

[chrisofpa]

If it's not already drilled and tapped and had an optic side rail mounted, as long as it's a D-Technik or CSA mfg. rifle, you can send it to Czechpoint and have that work done for @ $80, which would be  preferable to a top cover or hand guard mounted optic:

https://www.czechpoint-usa.com/receiver-side-rail-installed?l=4

Hell of a deal!

That is awesome, I am leaning heavily towards that. I wonder if I send them the optic with the rifle if they can put it on the optics mount, attach it to the rifle and zero it for extra?