Author Topic: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF  (Read 3497 times)

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Offline greycrane

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Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« on: October 06, 2016, 08:19:49 AM »
I'm having a problem with my CZ 75 PCR. I have fired 300 rounds with my PCR. Mostly with factory FMJ, some JHP, and LGS reloads. It feeds and fire reliably.

However, after upgrading the guide rod and recoil springs to DPM, my PCR fails to feed my LGS reloads. The ammo is stuck in the extractor. I need to field strip it to removed the stuck ammo. Even after changing back to my standard guide rod and recoil springs, the problem still exist. But after firing factory FMJ again (The first two following rounds of factory FMJ would get stuck after shooting the first round),  it would shoot reliably again (3rd shot and onward are all good) .

Shooting factory loads with the DPM guide rod and recoil springs is 100% good.

My LGS claims that they have good reloads, and that my PCR extractor was damaged because of the DPM. Though shooting with factory loads is reliable. And when I shoot the reloads, my PCR gets very dirty after a few rounds (at least 4 rounds), the barrel, and slide is filled with a black powdery thing....

Is it a problem with the DPM? Did the DPM damaged my extractor? Or did my LGS reloads became unreliable?

Looking forward for your advice and help.
     

Offline 452pcr

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2016, 08:39:00 AM »
Well it works fine with factory and has problems with reloads.....

Seems like you know the problem.

But why? 

From what I have read and experienced, CZs eat anything ....except bad ammo. Upgrades with quality parts rarely seems to degrade performance.

When problems arise, what change creates the problem: Ammo appears to be your source.

Reloads open themselves up to opportunities for failure, and although they may be made correctly, they person putting it together often makes some assumptions:
Powder is highest quality
case length is exact
case base is not damaged by press or.... hitting the ground/floor when ejected...

If reloads are causing problems, then something got overlooked in that process.

I find three types of reloaders are most common:
Those who do it for money - and quality can suffer
Those who enjoy the hobby and do their utmost to do it right typically at cost.
Professional match shooters who take extremes to reach perfection and may even do a box for a friend but basically only reload for themselves.

And there are mixes of the above, but its up to you to figure out where your supplier of reloads fits.

You may want to get a caliper and check the brass.  Compare factory to your reloads.
BTW what headstamp is on the brass?  I have found PMC garbage out there so I do not buy it.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 08:43:34 AM by 452pcr »
Practice Safety Always.

[in other words - It's LOADED]

Offline sigken

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2016, 11:23:43 AM »
The first thing I'd do is swap things back to stock and try factory ammo. Then go from there ...

Offline olfarhors

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2016, 03:12:09 PM »
Yeppers!
 the manufacture can only  design a  weapon to operate with factory specs and factory (SAAMI/CIP?) ammunition.
 so you got to find out what you have changed to  remove the performance.
personally I never shoot anyones reloads that I would not also wear their underwear.
MY P-01 is well north of 7.000 rounds without a single malfunction, firing almost exclusively my reloads and using reduced power springs and long firing pin from Cajun, so it will work.
good luck.

Offline greycrane

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2016, 12:07:39 AM »
Well it works fine with factory and has problems with reloads.....

Seems like you know the problem.

But why? 

From what I have read and experienced, CZs eat anything ....except bad ammo. Upgrades with quality parts rarely seems to degrade performance.

When problems arise, what change creates the problem: Ammo appears to be your source.

Reloads open themselves up to opportunities for failure, and although they may be made correctly, they person putting it together often makes some assumptions:
Powder is highest quality
case length is exact
case base is not damaged by press or.... hitting the ground/floor when ejected...

If reloads are causing problems, then something got overlooked in that process.

I find three types of reloaders are most common:
Those who do it for money - and quality can suffer
Those who enjoy the hobby and do their utmost to do it right typically at cost.
Professional match shooters who take extremes to reach perfection and may even do a box for a friend but basically only reload for themselves.

And there are mixes of the above, but its up to you to figure out where your supplier of reloads fits.

You may want to get a caliper and check the brass.  Compare factory to your reloads.
BTW what headstamp is on the brass?  I have found PMC garbage out there so I do not buy it.

Thanks for the advice, I'll check it with a caliper next visit. Brass Headstamp is 11.

Offline greycrane

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2016, 12:09:55 AM »
The first thing I'd do is swap things back to stock and try factory ammo. Then go from there ...

I did revert back to original and try the factory ammo, it function flawlessly. Though the LGS reloads still didn't. Yet they claim it was the DPM fault that my PCR cannot accept their reloads anymore.

Offline greycrane

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2016, 12:17:49 AM »
Yeppers!
 the manufacture can only  design a  weapon to operate with factory specs and factory (SAAMI/CIP?) ammunition.
 so you got to find out what you have changed to  remove the performance.
personally I never shoot anyones reloads that I would not also wear their underwear.
MY P-01 is well north of 7.000 rounds without a single malfunction, firing almost exclusively my reloads and using reduced power springs and long firing pin from Cajun, so it will work.
good luck.

Thanks for the thought.  :)

Stojanovich

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2016, 06:11:07 AM »
Yeppers!
 the manufacture can only  design a  weapon to operate with factory specs and factory (SAAMI/CIP?) ammunition.
 so you got to find out what you have changed to  remove the performance.
personally I never shoot anyones reloads that I would not also wear their underwear.
MY P-01 is well north of 7.000 rounds without a single malfunction, firing almost exclusively my reloads and using reduced power springs and long firing pin from Cajun, so it will work.
good luck.

I'm exactly the same way about unknown reloads.  If I don't know who made them and what components they used, I just don't use them.  All of my CZ's are unmodified and bone-stock: P-01, PCR and matte stainless 75B.  I haven't shot anything but factory ammo thru them and have yet to experience any type of malfunction.  All three seem to prefer 124gr. projectiles for the best accuracy, although, they do well with the cheaper 115gr. loads too. 

Offline gregshake2

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2016, 01:03:19 PM »
What is DPM?


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Offline Jaems

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2016, 03:33:25 PM »
It is your LGS reloads that have caused the original problems.  The LGS is probably using a cheap dirty powder, with low loads, and Berry's bullets for a profit.  PMC also uses a dirty powder.   

Though, I would probably never use them, the CZ should function well with even the Russian steel cases.    My CZ's have shot most everything available around here, including my reloads from the early 80's, never a problem with any of them.   

Offline JaPes

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2016, 08:20:45 AM »
It's the LGS' reloads that are questionable.  Using process of elimination you should have already concluded such.

  • Stock, your gun fires and cycles factory new ammo without issue.

  • With the upgraded quality parts, your gun fires and cycles factory new ammo without issue.

  • With upgraded quality parts or OEM configuration, your gun fails to cycle whatever low quality reloads your LGS is trying foist upon their customers in order to make a buck.


Rule #1 about reloads:  Unless you are purchasing commercially re-manufactured ammo from a licensed and well insured commercial ammo re-manufacturer, do not shoot it.  Outside of commercially re-manufactured ammunition, the only reloads you should shoot are the rounds you've reloaded yourself.

Why?

Licensed, bonded, and insured commercially ammo re manufacturers are liable for the fitment of use of their end product.  This in mind, commercial ammo re-manufacturers put in place the equipment, process, materials, and checks in place similar to factory new ammo manufacturers.  Due to volume, they are able to acquire better materials at lower costs.  Even with all of this, commercially re-manufactured ammo holds a higher probability of catastrophic failure than factory new ammo.  Your saving grace should you experience catastrophic failure of a commercial re-manufactured round is the both the business size / presence and the liability insurance of the commercial ammo manufacturer.

Re-loads made by an individual and sold through a small gun shop or at a gun show hold an attractive price, but are a wholly unknown quantity.  You have no idea what components have been used.  You have no idea of the condition of the case used.  You're putting your trust that some individual has put in the time and effort to check every case for fitment of use, has made sure that powder charges are of the proper weight, properly metered, consistent, and checked.  This individual is an unknown quantity, not licensed, not insured, and lord knows if you can find them should something go wrong.  They hold no vested interest in whether or not your firearm blows up or you get injured.  They want the $$$ from your pocket. 

When you reload your own, you have a vested interest in keeping your gun from blowing up and keeping your hands, eyes, face from physical injury.  When I reload, I'm inspecting, cleaning, and re-inspecting every case.  I know the components (primer, case, propellant, and projectile) used to make my own reloads.  I put in my own checks along the reloading process. 

Measuring the already proven bad LGS reloads with a caliper is not the solution. The solution: don't buy their bad reloads.

Folks who haven't reloaded themselves do not truly understand the risk of shooting someone elses reloads.  I highly suggest that you give reloading a try.  Buy a Lee Hand Press kit and a 4-die set, calipers, and a reliable scale.  Acquire a small amount of consumables.  Acquire a reloading manual.  Once you experience reloading your own rounds, you'll really understand.
-John
75B | 75B High Polish | 75D PCR

Offline greycrane

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2016, 10:45:38 PM »
What is DPM?


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It's a recoil reduction spring system. It helps in easy reacquiring of targets for double taps, and claims to ease the tension for the gun's frame, therefore longer frame life.

Offline greycrane

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2016, 10:49:13 PM »
It's the LGS' reloads that are questionable.  Using process of elimination you should have already concluded such.

  • Stock, your gun fires and cycles factory new ammo without issue.

  • With the upgraded quality parts, your gun fires and cycles factory new ammo without issue.

  • With upgraded quality parts or OEM configuration, your gun fails to cycle whatever low quality reloads your LGS is trying foist upon their customers in order to make a buck.


Rule #1 about reloads:  Unless you are purchasing commercially re-manufactured ammo from a licensed and well insured commercial ammo re-manufacturer, do not shoot it.  Outside of commercially re-manufactured ammunition, the only reloads you should shoot are the rounds you've reloaded yourself.

Why?

Licensed, bonded, and insured commercially ammo re manufacturers are liable for the fitment of use of their end product.  This in mind, commercial ammo re-manufacturers put in place the equipment, process, materials, and checks in place similar to factory new ammo manufacturers.  Due to volume, they are able to acquire better materials at lower costs.  Even with all of this, commercially re-manufactured ammo holds a higher probability of catastrophic failure than factory new ammo.  Your saving grace should you experience catastrophic failure of a commercial re-manufactured round is the both the business size / presence and the liability insurance of the commercial ammo manufacturer.

Re-loads made by an individual and sold through a small gun shop or at a gun show hold an attractive price, but are a wholly unknown quantity.  You have no idea what components have been used.  You have no idea of the condition of the case used.  You're putting your trust that some individual has put in the time and effort to check every case for fitment of use, has made sure that powder charges are of the proper weight, properly metered, consistent, and checked.  This individual is an unknown quantity, not licensed, not insured, and lord knows if you can find them should something go wrong.  They hold no vested interest in whether or not your firearm blows up or you get injured.  They want the $$$ from your pocket. 

When you reload your own, you have a vested interest in keeping your gun from blowing up and keeping your hands, eyes, face from physical injury.  When I reload, I'm inspecting, cleaning, and re-inspecting every case.  I know the components (primer, case, propellant, and projectile) used to make my own reloads.  I put in my own checks along the reloading process. 

Measuring the already proven bad LGS reloads with a caliper is not the solution. The solution: don't buy their bad reloads.

Folks who haven't reloaded themselves do not truly understand the risk of shooting someone elses reloads.  I highly suggest that you give reloading a try.  Buy a Lee Hand Press kit and a 4-die set, calipers, and a reliable scale.  Acquire a small amount of consumables.  Acquire a reloading manual.  Once you experience reloading your own rounds, you'll really understand.

Thank you for the very detailed and technical advice.

I would really like to learn how to reload myself, but it is illegal here in the Philippines to do our own reload. And only licensed LGS can do such reloading.

I'll buy factory loads for now on.

Thanks again

Offline Bible2David

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2016, 06:56:49 AM »
I use the DPM system in several of my guns. It is in my PCR with no problems, and my 75BD Police has close to 1000 rounds through it with no problems.  Sounds like the reloads are your problem.

Offline gregshake2

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Re: Help: CZ 75 PCR - FTF
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2016, 11:23:25 AM »
Thank you greycrane


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