Any ideas on what went wrong

[mfer]

So, I have shot my cz p-01 twice now.

First time I shot it, I did really well.  I shot it with 9mm and with .22lr Kadet conversion.  I was getting nice groups around the X from 9yards to 15 yards.  Not saying I'm a marksman but it was a good grouping for me.  Consistently slightly high and slight left.  Guess I'm most likely anticipating recoil.

Then I upgrade my P-01 with CGW Pro package. Trigger is very crisp on SA and reset is short.  Trigger also feels smoother.  It has an 18# hammerspring with a modified firing pin to work with the 18# spring.  I like the heavier DA pull for safety and want my Kadet to work.  Bottom line, very happy with upgrades.

Today however I was all over the place.  Not consistent.  I never shoot right.  Well, today I was right, left, up , down.  You name it.  At 9 yards I was ok.  Anything beyond was a mess. I almost wonder if I miss the longer trigger pull.  This one breaks clean (like "glass" I read).  Maybe I'm anticipating recoil and the trigger is throwing me off or something.  Has anyone else experienced anything like this?  Is it just an adjustment I'm going to have to get through as I adjust to new trigger?  Just an off day?

Thanks for thoughts / theories.

[Tok36]

First things first, an 18# hammer spring dose not sound right with a modified firing pin.  18# is around the factory hammer spring weight as i understand it. Are you sure you are running an 18# hammer spring?

Edit: I was off-base above, OP clarified his setup in the post below.

As far as the issues you are having shooting the pistol, i can not think of anything aside form a change in the consistency of the barrel lock up or the bushings interface with the barrel that holds the potential to cause what you are describing. Generally these two things do not change from what i have seen.

 I find it most likely that you may benefit from more trigger time. I have found that squishy/creepy stock triggers can be easy to shoot in some cases. Transitioning to a more refined/upgraded trigger can require some effort and time. A good example of this for me is my upgraded CZ P-09, i found it easier to shoot consistently before i upgraded it. In time and with further adjustment i believe the upgraded format will offer me more, but there is no guarantee.

I would suggest having someone other than yourself shoot the pistol. This may help you distinguish between a shooter issue and a pistol issue.

[mfer]

First things first, an 18# hammer spring dose not sound right with a modified firing pin.  18# is around the factory hammer spring weight as i understand it. Are you sure you are running an 18# hammer spring?

My research found
SP-01 tactical has 20# OEM hammerspring
P-01 tactical has a 19# OEM hammerspring

Kadet needs a minimum 17# hammerspring for 100% ignition of rimfire.

David modified his modified extended firing pin to a shorter length (almost OEM)  to work with the short reset system.  Then you can use 18# spring.

I'm not blaming CGW at all.  I don't see how the mods I did could impact accuracy in any way.  I wonder if I just got used to the creepy triggers on my SP-01 and P-01 and now that I have a crisp trigger on my P-01 I need to relearn again.  Maybe good for me in the long run?

[whitecap]

You need to qualify the gun before anything else is done. Could you make up a simple gun rest? Anything that will help the gun to be more consistent and remove as much human error as possible. You did not mention that you have changed types of ammo, although at your yardage it shouldn't matter. Cut off the legs of some old pants, that have suffered from closet shrinkage, and put gallon bags of sand into them. Seal off each end with a stout zip tie, done! Shoot for the exact same point regardless of where your bullets hit. A group should be evident in a short time. Only the should you consider moving anything. Good luck and keep us posted.

[mfer]

You need to qualify the gun before anything else is done. Could you make up a simple gun rest? Anything that will help the gun to be more consistent and remove as much human error as possible. You did not mention that you have changed types of ammo, although at your yardage it shouldn't matter. Cut off the legs of some old pants, that have suffered from closet shrinkage, and put gallon bags of sand into them. Seal off each end with a stout zip tie, done! Shoot for the exact same point regardless of where your bullets hit. A group should be evident in a short time. Only the should you consider moving anything. Good luck and keep us posted.

Before I modified it, I did do a simple qualify.  I stacked up 3 CZ cases and at 9 or 12 yards I put 5 shots pretty much exactly on the X.  I also fired it about 100 times in 9mm with zero failures. Wanted to make sure it worked before I voided warranty with modifications to trigger.

Someone else told me something that might be wrong.  I was anticipating getting better groups as I have a better trigger now.  Perhaps I was focusing on the target instead of the front sights.  That same someone said they get all over the place when the focus on the target.

Think I may need to get used to the crisp trigger vs the creepy one I had.

[Tok36]

First things first, an 18# hammer spring dose not sound right with a modified firing pin.  18# is around the factory hammer spring weight as i understand it. Are you sure you are running an 18# hammer spring?

My research found
SP-01 tactical has 20# OEM hammerspring
P-01 tactical has a 19# OEM hammerspring

Kadet needs a minimum 17# hammerspring for 100% ignition of rimfire.

David modified his modified extended firing pin to a shorter length (almost OEM)  to work with the short reset system.  Then you can use 18# spring.

I'm not blaming CGW at all.  I don't see how the mods I did could impact accuracy in any way.  I wonder if I just got used to the creepy triggers on my SP-01 and P-01 and now that I have a crisp trigger on my P-01 I need to relearn again.  Maybe good for me in the long run?

I see, this is an uncommon setup. When you said modded firing pin i assumed you were talking about the CGW extended firing pin.

Generally i have found a crisper trigger (without creep) to be an asset to my shooting. It did take time to learn to take advantage of it in some cases. More range time with your P-01 may be in order.

[Joe L]

I have a lot of experience getting used to revised triggers.  What you are experiencing is what I see when modify nearly any gun.  I struggle with it for a few rounds, maybe 100-200, and I am an experienced shooter.  Getting upset or concerned about it makes it worse.  What you need to do is some dry fire with an empty gun and the 9mm slide installed.  Here is a video from a few years ago that I did on trigger prep.  What you need to do is learn how much pressure you can put on the trigger without it going off, and then how much to release the hammer.  But in dry fire.  I would spend 15 minutes doing this at least 2 or 3 sessions before going back to the range. 

You need to "unlearn" the old trigger.  Then install the Kadet slide and shoot 50 rounds or so, slow fire, paying attention to exactly how the trigger feels as you apply pressure and then release the shot.  Then put on the 9mm slide and try some live fire with it.  It will feel different than the Kadet because there is no firing pin safety block to lift. 

https://youtu.be/EyRJerXq3sw

There is nothing wrong with the gun.  Its always me!

Joe

[handgun2]

I suspect the same basic item like Joe,

My .02c,  is the new trigger is very light and crisp, and you 'may be', (as you described basically) anticipating the recoil/blast, or you may simply be 'pulling' or 'plucking' at the trigger too hard when you feel have 'right' sight picture.. or even you are switching back and forth between focus on target and front sight and moving your hand when transitioning sight picture.. all those small sublte things will contribute to the 'new' randomness' of your POI.    I suggest, lots of slow, aimed dry fire to get used to the trigger,   and then some real slow aimed, with correct trigger pull / squeeze back to you.. while keeping same sighting focus! and of course the basic ' on a rest' prove the its the shooter.. not the gun scenario!

please keep us updated! rock on! I suspect once you get 'used' to the new trigger, you will be a dead eye!
cheers from k in MI

[rhart]

My bet is new trigger needs new learning like aforementioned.

[mfer]

I have a lot of experience getting used to revised triggers.  What you are experiencing is what I see when modify nearly any gun.  I struggle with it for a few rounds, maybe 100-200, and I am an experienced shooter.  Getting upset or concerned about it makes it worse.  What you need to do is some dry fire with an empty gun and the 9mm slide installed.  Here is a video from a few years ago that I did on trigger prep.  What you need to do is learn how much pressure you can put on the trigger without it going off, and then how much to release the hammer.  But in dry fire.  I would spend 15 minutes doing this at least 2 or 3 sessions before going back to the range. 

You need to "unlearn" the old trigger.  Then install the Kadet slide and shoot 50 rounds or so, slow fire, paying attention to exactly how the trigger feels as you apply pressure and then release the shot.  Then put on the 9mm slide and try some live fire with it.  It will feel different than the Kadet because there is no firing pin safety block to lift. 

https://youtu.be/EyRJerXq3sw

There is nothing wrong with the gun.  Its always me!

Joe

Thanks Joe.  I'm going to stop shooting my SP-01 now until I do the same upgrades on it.  Basically the pro-package on CGW.  Might as well order another one for my PCR I don't own yet!  Sickness is bad!!!!

I recently got some snap caps for 9mm and .22lr so I could dry fire it more without fear of damage.  I'll practice some more for sure before I go again.  It was bugging me so bad at the range, I think it made it worse the more I shot.  The good news at least is I joined the range membership so it'll be cheaper to go back more!!

Thanks for the tips, encouragement and video.  All very helpful.

[mfer]

I suspect the same basic item like Joe,

My .02c,  is the new trigger is very light and crisp, and you 'may be', (as you described basically) anticipating the recoil/blast, or you may simply be 'pulling' or 'plucking' at the trigger too hard when you feel have 'right' sight picture.. or even you are switching back and forth between focus on target and front sight and moving your hand when transitioning sight picture.. all those small sublte things will contribute to the 'new' randomness' of your POI.    I suggest, lots of slow, aimed dry fire to get used to the trigger,   and then some real slow aimed, with correct trigger pull / squeeze back to you.. while keeping same sighting focus! and of course the basic ' on a rest' prove the its the shooter.. not the gun scenario!

please keep us updated! rock on! I suspect once you get 'used' to the new trigger, you will be a dead eye!
cheers from k in MI

I'm definitely recoil sensitive.  It was hard to overcome shooting trap as well.  It never hurts, but very hard for me to not anticipate as I know the movement is coming.  I feel with pistols it'll be even harder than trap.  Focusing on that firmer grip is new for me.  In shotgunning, I never gripped hard.  If I did grip hard, it would cause me to pull early and not lead enough.

I don't know that I'll ever be a "dead eye" pistol shooting.  Seems to be slightly more difficult for me than shotgunning.

[mfer]

I see, this is an uncommon setup. When you said modded firing pin i assumed you were talking about the CGW extended firing pin.

Generally i have found a crisper trigger (without creep) to be an asset to my shooting. It did take time to learn to take advantage of it in some cases. More range time with your P-01 may be in order.

He does it all the time (David), but he just doesn't advertise if for some reason.  It definitely worked for my Kadet.  0 failures to fire with ~200 rds, but I did find out my Kadet doesn't like the cheap 40gr Federal ammo (fail to eject/cycle), but does like the cheap Winchester (not one failure in 500 rounds except 3-5 duds).

[handgun2]

mfer,

if I may offer a little bit more..  sounds like you get 'anxious' about the recoil/trigger pull event/recoil event!  my additional support is this: learn to have 'fun' w/ it...   begin in your mind... ' I like it... when I shoot"" " I like the recoil, it makes feel alive",   you will be VERY surprised over time to learn to 'have fun' w/ will change your your whole shooting 'perception'' and 'expierience'.  REALLY.   and I would encourage you to practice VERY SLOWLY.. meaning.. focus on sight picture and THEN squeeze trigger gently.. the trigger break should be more of a 'surprise event' , rather than 'on sight, jerk! bang, bleep where did the bullet go, bleep.. not where I wanted".    It should be 'wow' didnt' see that coming, but WAY COOL, I  HIT EXCATLY WHERE I WAS AIMINGS!, omg so cool".     kinda thing. really.

I won last years freebie ' pay ' 5 bucks, for Easter Target give aways...  that way.    hanging easter egg at 15yrds.. you get 5 shots to break it..    I broke egg on first shot.. they gave me another egg cuz I had four more shots.. hit it again on 4 rnd..      hopefully, youget to understand.. IT IS FUN!!!! TO SHOOT!!!  the more 'fun' you have.. the more relaxed you are BUT concentrated! the better it will work out. 

respectfully, K in MI

[Joe L]

mfer, handgun2 has given you an interesting perspective that I fully concur with.  In the long run, the new parts will allow you to shoot the gun more accurately.  In the short run, there is a lot of adjusting to do and also just skills to develop.  Take you time and have fun with it. 

Another idea that has helped me when I changed something on a pistol, or when I was just struggling, is to shoot at a blank target, roughly letter page size, at 10-15 yards or so.  You will be surprised at how small a group you can shoot when you don't have something specific to aim at.  You just center the sights roughly in the middle of the sheet and carefullly pull the trigger without changing the tension in your grip, and let the hits fall where they may.  Don't worry about where the holes are, just learn to pull the trigger very slowly to the rear after taking out all of the slack and engaging the sear.  To me, this is a great way to help you "feel" the trigger and learn to manipulate it without moving the gun. 

That's it. You have plenty of good advice for now.  Go have some fun, and don't worry about the holes, think about the trigger movement.

Joe

[1SOW]

I've had a CZCustom 75 Shadow that had a very light trigger and a really short reset.
At first I was not consistent because I wasn't able to prestage the trigger between targets without an occasional bang a little too soon.  I got used to trigger and put about 20k rds through it before I had some parts wear.

I decided to replace action parts to end up with a short reach trigger  with a slightly  heavier pull.  I also had the new CGW bbl bushing put in.  My shooting speed AND accuracy fell off. 😕

I KNEW I should be shooting  better,  but just couldn't get myself into the new routine.
I dry fired the snot out of  it and went to the practice range twice before I finally got back into feeling comfortable pulling the trigger.  I' m now happy I made the changes.  I'm shooting better and more consistently with the new trigger set-up along with some new LOK grips.

  Like JoeL always says,  It's the shooter, not the pistol.