Author Topic: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??  (Read 15710 times)

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Offline 2bfree

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2016, 05:30:30 PM »
Ya,but, the Dillon calendar has some really NICE pictures of guns for every month, bet your state calendar does not.  ;)
  https://www.dillonprecision.com/2017-dillon-precision-calendar_8_12_26344.html

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2016, 06:21:32 PM »
Ya, but the Dillon calendar has some really NICE pictures of guns for every month, bet your state calendar does not.  ;)


Those are nice guns !  And I love the description....

Quote
Our 2017 calendar measures 38" x 22" x 36"....

 ;D
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Offline 2bfree

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2016, 07:12:54 PM »
Ya, but the Dillon calendar has some really NICE pictures of guns for every month, bet your state calendar does not.  ;)


Those are nice guns !  And I love the description....

Quote
Our 2017 calendar measures 38" x 22" x 36"....

 ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 09:11:57 PM by Wobbly »

Offline amada8

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2016, 07:26:47 PM »
So 650 users....
Do you really need that bearing upgrade beneath the shell plate ?? Is that just for some people who don't know how to adjust the mounting bolt tension, or it for people with case feeders ??

The two washers and the bearing are less than $10 from McMasterr-Carr.  You WILL need to tweak your wire that feeds completed cartridges after station 5... so order an extra wire or two.  (OR,,, mill out the block that feeds the cases to station 1....in hind sight, a better option for someone with free access to a milling machine).  The washers/bearing are a must imo.  Allows you to tighten down the mounting bolt just a bit more.  This.... plus make sure the rotation timing is perfect....... and you will never have to worry about powder spill due to the shell plate snapping into place.

Other upgrades:
1) Inline Fab makes a light kit.  A 6" LED strip light plus a beam that plugs into the center hole of your top die set.  A must have imo 10/10

2) Dillon bullet tray.  9/10 because you can probably rig something up cheaper.

3) Dillon Strong Mount.  7/10 depends on your mounting situation

4) Roller Handles.  A few out there... I have one that is OK, better than stock....but something you can add later.  Inline (I think( has a "new" ergo roller handle that you might want)  8/10

5) Cartridge bin "plate"......slides into the slot on the outside of the Arco bin and blocks cartridges from escaping as the bin gets full.  Not necessary but..... 5/10  (a strong self-cut cardboard option IS possible)

6) The micrometer style powder adjustment. Simple to install, simple to use.  I have one on each of my powder bars and make easy adjustments and can really "dial" in the powder drop.  Not cheap, but I really like these.  9/10 (missing one because it still takes effort :) to get the drop perfect)

7) I do have a roller camming bar.  Not sure if you really need one. 

8) Add a rubber band to the end of the primer ski ramp. 

9) SA Development Press Monitor.  Totally unnecessary but it has saved me at times...especially during development or after a tweak,,,, when I have lost track of whether I go up or down.  Other neat features as well.  Again, not necessary.  (I made a handful of brackets (a can let sell for just a little more than shipping) to mount directly to the case feeder pole (But you need the Model II and Alan is onto generation III)

I went back to using the stock spent primer cup after trying several options...that in the end, really only save a minute or two per month.

I went without a case feeder for my first two years.  Not as bad as you would think as the SA Monitor alerted me for case additions every 20 strokes......but am glad I now have added the CF.




« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 04:07:54 PM by amada8 »
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Offline coolcw1987

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2016, 07:34:38 PM »
Based on what I was reading in forums it looked like people wish they upgraded in like 6 months. If you got 15 years out of it maybe I can start out with something simpler.

Offline SlvrDragon50

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2016, 02:09:20 AM »
Wow, I would have thought you would have had a 550B AND an XL650 Wobbly!

If you decide to sell your 550B, let me know. I might be interested in it if you have a 9mm kit for it. But like everyone else has said... forums tell me everyone ends up getting a 650 for mass production.

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2016, 07:24:26 AM »

There would be new things to learn concerning the 650's operation, and probably new drawbacks... Like "oops I can't do that on this press".


I am generally familiar with a 550 and how it operates, but I have never used one.  I will also remind you that I use a Redding expander in station 2, and a Hornady drop in station 3, so I can't speak to Dillon powder bar failsafe.  I also do not have the Dillon primer early warning system installed.

That said, I think the only "drawbacks" you're going to run into in terms of function are going to involve retraining yourself to the auto-indexing.  Your "oops, I can't do that on this press" moments are going to revolve around you wanting to move the ram up or down, crossing the index point, and getting it to index when you didn't want it to.  Then you're pulling and moving cases around, or running three or four pulls without a full shellplate.  Another PIA with this is that when the shellplate indexes, the priming system indexes whether there's a new case to be primed or not, and unused primers need to be reloaded into the primer tube periodically.  If you know ahead of time that you need to index a bunch of times without priming, you can remove and replace the primer indexer quickly, but otherwise, you end up cycling new primers into an unused primer chute to be collected and reloaded into the priming system later.

It's all a minor thing once you've adjusted to it.


Do you really need that bearing upgrade beneath the shell plate ?? Is that just for some people who don't know how to adjust the mounting bolt tension, or it for people with case feeders ??


Okay, I'm not sure which of two things you mean here.  There is the steel ball-bearing detent we talked about in Baldrage's thread that can knock powder up and out of the case when it snaps into place.  And there is thrust bearing that people mount on top of the shellplate between the shellplate and the mounting bolt.

As to the ball-bearing detent-- Do you have to replace it?  No.  The amount of powder is tiny.  There's no ballistic effect measurable with any tools we would be using.  Given a small case like 9mm, though, and you'll start to see spillage during a run, and it's a small, cheap upgrade to reduce or get rid of it. 

As to the thrust bearing, I don't know.  I don't use one, and the 650 is exceedingly smooth to me, so I'm not sure what it's accomplishing.  Regardless, the answer is no, you don't need one.




What are the weak points of the 650 ?


On the 650, the case rims sit in slots at the edge of the shellplate.  The amount of metal suppoerting the cases is not particularly thick.  This is as opposed to the LnL, where the cases sit on thick, sub plate, and the shellplate just slides the cases around on the subplate.  Under force, when the ram is driving the cases into the dies, the 650 shellplate is going to flex more than the LnL.  I am not sure about how much it flexes relative to the 550.  That flexing is going to give increased runout relative to the LnL, and maybe the 550, as well.

How much of a weakness is this?  For it's intended purpose, zero -- because the 650 is a high volume pistol cartridge machine.  It was intended for pistol.  You can get the conversion kits for various rifle calibers, but that was not it's designed purpose.  For pistol at normal pistol ranges, the extra variation from one pull of the lever to the next isn't going to show up on the target.  I say that because I load .45 ammo on the 650 that holds 10-round groups under 4 inches.  That's me and my 97BE, wrists rested on a rolled up bath towel.  I'm an okay shot, but not great, so if I'm holding under 4 at 50 yards, the pistol and the ammo are getting a LOT of credit.  I produce 50-yard worthy precision on a 650 without that upgrade, so I don't consider this weakness in the shellplate to be significant so long as you're NOT loading pistol.  I load rifle on a single-stage.  If you wanted to load long range rifle, you might be advised to do it on a single-stage, or you might want to keep the 550.

Another small weakness would be that the priming anvil isn't adjustable.  That's not really a weakness, just a feature I wish it had.

And yet another minor weakness is that unused primers go down a shoot into a little short-walled platform, where the walls aren't tall enough that the primers are guaranteed to stop there.  Some of them fly off and fall to the floor.  There are a number of easy fixes for it.



What additional accessories are required to make it run smoothly ?


Amada8 gave you a list that is pretty much everything.


I use the strong mount and the Dillon roller handle.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  When I mounted my 650, I mounted it to the strong mount, then put on the table top with the handle pulled down and the ram raised all the way to the top.  I slid the strong mount and press back into the table until the lowered handle touched the table edge.  I then slid the mount/press back another eighth of an inch, which pushed the hand back up just a hair.  That's where I mounted the strong mount.  If not mounted this way, you pull the handle and when the ram hits the top, there's some flexing going on, and variation from one cartridge to the next is dependent on your ability to feel the exact same amount of force on each stroke so that you stop your arm, and reverse directions.  I don't have that.  With the way I set it up, the handle hits the edge of the desktop and stops.  There's no variable flexing at the top end going on dependent on my arm consistency.  The LnL has an overtravel linkage where you hit a maximum force, then it backs off, so you hit the same max every time regardless of your arm pull.  I mention this here because if you want to employ this trick, the strong mount is absolutely necessary, and the handle needs to be long enough.  I can tell you the Dillon roller handle is long enough, but I can't speak to others.  I wouldn't do this without a roller handle of some kind anyway.  It's a must have for me.

The bullet tray is nice, but not necessary. 

The case feeding system is nice.  VERY nice.  Even withOUT the powered collator.  I reload every 20-ish rounds, depending on caliber.  A collator would be great, and they're actually quite easy to build yourself.  There are videos on Youtube.  It looks to cost about $50 to make.  One of these days...  But for now, the system in place with just the tube is extremely useful. 

I can't think of anything else that's necessary.

If you have any specific questions, let me know.


To sum up, if you're envisioning this as a pistol loading press, go for it.  If you're envisioning it for precision rifle, there might be better options -- either an LnL, or a 650 + a single-stage, or 650 plus your 550.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 04:01:43 PM by IDescribe »

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2016, 08:27:49 AM »
Amada, ID, & All -
Thanks for the details. A lot of what you guys describe (like the op lever stop on the bench) I already do on the 550. A lot of the accessories you describe (like the roller handle and strong mount) I already own and would transfer to the new machine. A lot of the problem areas (like rifle reloading) don't apply to me because I don't shoot or reload for rifle.

What I would expect from the 650 is...
? Auto rotation
? Cleaner primer ejection and primer smut collection

This last point is key. I'm not really clear on the 650 primer handling though. I think the 2 systems are very similar. On my 550 the shuttle goes back and forth with each op lever pull, regardless. If there's no case present, the shuttle retains the new primer. When it returns to the primer tube for refill, the new one stays in place, and the tube does not dispense a new primer because the shuttle cup is already 'occupied'.

Since the primer is ejected at it's own station, I think I'm good on ejection and smut collection. However, you make it sound as though the 650 primer is somehow knocked out of the shuttle cup whether it is good or bad???

Lastly, it was the shell plate bearing upgrade I was referring to, not the ball detent upgrade. Sounds as though both are 'nice', but not 'must haves'. The powders I'm using never bring the level up to the rim on 9mm, and of course, never-ever on 38 Spcl !!


Thanks, buddy.
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Offline Smitty79

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2016, 08:35:18 AM »

What I would expect from the 650 is...
? Auto rotation
? Cleaner primer ejection and primer smut collection



The reason I might upgrade is to add a bullet feeder.   At my current shooting rate, it's not worth it.
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Offline amada8

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2016, 03:34:37 PM »

? Cleaner primer ejection and primer smut collection

This last point is key. I'm not really clear on the 650 primer handling though. I think the 2 systems are very similar. On my 550 the shuttle goes back and forth with each op lever pull, regardless. If there's no case present, the shuttle retains the new primer. When it returns to the primer tube for refill, the new one stays in place, and the tube does not dispense a new primer because the shuttle cup is already 'occupied'.

Since the primer is ejected at it's own station, I think I'm good on ejection and smut collection. However, you make it sound as though the 650 primer is somehow knocked out of the shuttle cup whether it is good or bad???

Lastly, it was the shell plate bearing upgrade I was referring to, not the ball detent upgrade. Sounds as though both are 'nice', but not 'must haves'. The powders I'm using never bring the level up to the rim on 9mm, and of course, never-ever on 38 Spcl !!


The primers drop from a vertical tube into a rotating disc on every pull.  As the primer disc rotates, it places a new primer (1) under station 2.  If there is no case (or you forget to push forward to seat the primer), the next pull will rotate the disc and new primer (2) takes its place under station 2.  Primer (1) continues the rotation now away from station 2.  The next complete pull will rotate the disc and that is when Primer (1) enters the top of the ski ramp....and heads downhill without ever taking lessons on a bunny slope.  The now vacant hole that was carrying Primer 1 continues to rotate around empty until under the vertical primer tube.  As I said before, wrap a rubber band around the bottom of the ski slope.

The 2 washer, 1 ball bearing washer on top of the shell plate.  Well, maybe it's a coincidence...but my action was never perfect until I did three things.  Perfectly! centered the primer punch, adjust the timing (case feeder block adjustment) and added the ball bearing washer set up.  TRULY a remarkable change after fighting a slight shell plate "snap".  I'm going to suggest that you make all attempts to make it work without the $10 purchase..... but be ready to pull out the credit card sooner, rather than later.
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Offline amada8

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2016, 03:48:52 PM »
Oh,, one more thing you mentioned. 

SPENT primers are ejected from the case at Station 1.  The spent primer falls under station one and is fed down a chute under caliber specific STATION ONE LOCATOR.  ((As the case feeder block pushes a case toward the shell plate, it slides over the station one locator with the case rim sliding into station one locator grooves.))  There is a hole at the end of the chute where the spent primer falls into a blue cup. 

Many (including me) have tried to bypass the cup and have the spent primers drop out of the chute hole into a larger collection bucket/container.  I have gone back to the original stock cup.  ONE of the reasons is that my last tweak attempt created a very hidden lip inside the chute...and the primers collected in the chute instead of exiting through the hole.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 03:50:53 PM by amada8 »
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Offline IDescribe

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2016, 03:58:27 PM »

What I would expect from the 650 is...
? Auto rotation
? Cleaner primer ejection and primer smut collection

This last point is key. I'm not really clear on the 650 primer handling though.


I think the 2 systems are very similar.


They're not.  They're signficantly different.  The 550 operates in principle like the LnL priming system with a shuttle that moves linearly back and forth between the primer tube and the station where the case with be primed.   On the 650, there is a round indexing plate with 16 holes around the outer edge.  The plate makes a sixteenth of a turn each time the system indexes, and with each index it rotates a new primer to the station where the case will be primed.    It's not from Point A to Point B.  From the point where a primer falls into the plate then over to Station 2 where the case is primed takes maybe 8 pulls of the lever.

Below is a picture of the underside of the priming system.  The blue arrow points to the metal piece that covers the primer plate hole underneath the primer tube.  The red arrow points to the indexing trigger.






And here below is a picture of the topside.   The primer tube drops primers into the primer plate, and the primer plate rotates around and move primers to station 2.  The red arrow points to the piece that indexes the indexing trigger shown in the previous trigger.  If the primer is not seated in a case at Station 2 for whatever reason, it keeps getting indexed counter-clockwise, and on the second index after Station 2, the unused primer falls into a chute (which Amada appropriately referenced as the ski ramp.  The bottom of the ski ramp in the photo has an orange arrow pointing to it, labeled unused primer, and it appears to be holding either a few unused primers, OR some spilled powder.  Regardless, that is where the unused primers are supposed to stop.  He calls it a ski ramp because it looks a little like one, and sometimes the primer jumps out of it at the end and hits the floor, though that is EASILY remedied with a rubber band.  I have marked with Yellow the box that catches used primers as cases are de-capped at Station 1.  I find the system to be clean.  You have to pay attention and empty it before it fills, or it will spill over, but as long as I empty it regularly, I haven't had a problem.  There are a number of DIY tricks to make it hold more or be even more contained, as you wish.



None of the pictured gear is mine, by the way.  Just pulled the pics off the web and added the text.

Personally, I like the priming system on the 650.   If for whatever reason I need to cycle cases through but don't want the primer system indexing, I just remove that "indexer" by removing the hex bolt seen in the photo and putting it back on when I'm ready. 

If you get this, Wobbly, get the case feeder collator or commit to building a DIY.  I really appreciate the casefeeder assembly in operation with just its 20-round tube.  It has to be great with a collator.

You're a Dillon guy who wants to upgrade to an auto-index that will be a pistol-only press.   Seems like an easy choice.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 04:03:18 PM by IDescribe »

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2016, 04:00:12 PM »
It would appear Amada got most of that covered.

Offline amada8

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2016, 04:14:58 PM »
Ahhhh, but you have pictures with words and arrows and stuff.  ::)
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Offline Wobbly

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Re: Should I sell my Dillon 550B ??
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2016, 04:51:07 PM »
Ahhhh, but you have pictures with words and arrows and stuff.  ::)


The first rule of public communication is "know your audience".

And ID knows I'm an idiot... and would prefer crayons and a coloring book edition.   ;D
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