700-X 9mm = dirty bunny fart loads

[Scarlett Pistol]

    Shot about 150 rounds of Berry's 124 gr loaded with 700-X. It's been a while since I've used this powder (have a bunch still sitting around) and I had forgotten just how soft the loads are. Like my subject said, dirty bunny fart loads.
    I started lower on the charge window and tonight I wasn't getting the most consistent pressure seal (burn marks on my brass). I didn't shoot terribly well, but I feel like I had some fliers that I wasn't having with BE-86. I'll increase the charges and see if the fliers calm down. Ultimately this is a cheap, dirty, soft shooting, economical powder. I don't expect much of it, just figured I'd share my experiences as I try and use it up.

[IDescribe]

Have you considered buying a .45?      It's an easy pitch to the board of directors: 

"Honey, baby-doll, I have to buy a new .45 so that I can use up this powder."   


On the other hand, if you have Steel Challenge locally, that sport has no power factor floor, so you could do whatever you like with the 700X and 9mm there.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

     Ultimately this is a cheap, dirty, soft shooting, economical powder. I don't expect much of it, just figured I'd share my experiences as I try and use it up.

Actually it is a really good powder for shotgun and revolver loads and like IDescribe mentioned .45 as well. I never bothered with it for 9mm since it can be hard to meter consistently especially in lighter charges.

[Scarlett Pistol]

Actually it is a really good powder for shotgun and revolver loads and like IDescribe mentioned .45 as well. I never bothered with it for 9mm since it can be hard to meter consistently especially in lighter charges.

Have you considered buying a .45?      It's an easy pitch to the board of directors: 

"Honey, baby-doll, I have to buy a new .45 so that I can use up this powder."   


On the other hand, if you have Steel Challenge locally, that sport has no power factor floor, so you could do whatever you like with the 700X and 9mm there.

Hahaha, you guys are funny, and the best enablers! I didn't realize it was a good .45 powder, that's good to know. Ha, after buying these two this winter I am now struggling to get funding for 9mm bullets, let alone a .45 and all the reloading gear. But oh how I lust for a CZ 97!

I wish I had steel challenge close by!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Wobbly]

So what was your load, and do you have chrono ?

Hodgdon gives this data...

700-X    .356"   1.150"    3.7gr     894fps   24,700 PSI Starting
                                    4.2gr  1,068fps   33,400 PSI Max Load

So this stuff is right in the range with W231. A load of 4.1 or 4.2gr might make a really good plinking load, if it meters well. I'll bet you're still short of 1068fps at 4.2gr. Or, you can drop back to 4.1gr as Max Load and run an OAL of 1.140".

 

[Scarlett Pistol]

So what was your load, and do you have chrono ?

Hodgdon gives this data...

700-X    .356"   1.150"    3.7gr     894fps   24,700 PSI Starting
                                    4.2gr  1,068fps   33,400 PSI Max Load

So this stuff is right in the range with W231. A load of 4.1 or 4.2gr might make a really good plinking load, if it meters well. I'll bet you're still short of 1068fps at 4.2gr. Or, you can drop back to 4.1gr as Max Load and run an OAL of 1.140".

 

This time around I used the load data from Hodgdon for the 125 gr LCN:
C.O.L. 1.125
3.1 grs

In the past I have also used the 125 Gr SIE FMJ data from Hodgdon. When I ran the max load and used some Winchester magnum pistol primers I had 2 or 3 split cases. Went back to normal small pistol primers (S&B, Winchester, CCI) and never had a split case again.
C.O.L. 1.090
starting: 3.0 grs
max: 3.6 grs

    I've spurred conversations in threads here before about the confusion created on Berry's site regarding lead vs FMJ load data. In my experience the lead data usually is underpowered for Berry's and the bottom of the charge windows don't create a good pressure seal. That being said it is a safe place to start a work up.
    I have another 150 rounds loaded that I need to shoot through, but I will adjust my C.O.L. and try the load data from Hodgedon for 124 GR BERB HBRN TP for ya. I have used it in the past and had no issues, but you all had yet to of tutored me and I didn't know as much about the things to look for.
    The more I post on this sub-forum the more I am convinced I need a chrono, as I do not have one right now. Hopefully tax season will be good to my household, as the birth of a baby was an expensive undertaking this last fall and fun money is limited (let alone all the diapers and what not!). 
     Metering... I hear some people hate 700-X for metering. I have the Hornady case activated powder drop. Sometimes there's the crunch of a flake. It's about 1 in 40 in +-1 0.1 gr from my target. Since I rarely run max this hasn't been an issue. It doesn't meter as nicely as BE-86 or HP-38, but it hasn't been terrible in my experience.

[Wobbly]

This time around I used the load data from Hodgdon for the 125 gr LCN:
C.O.L. 1.125
3.1 grs

C.O.L. 1.090
starting: 3.0 grs
max: 3.6 grs

? That's the problem right there.... Berry specifically states to use [b]FMJ[/b] data to load their bullets. It's in their FAQ section. By my proportioning, you should be starting at 3.6gr if you use 1.125" OAL.

When I ran the max load and used some Winchester magnum pistol primers I had 2 or 3 split cases. Went back to normal small pistol primers (S&B, Winchester, CCI) and never had a split case again.

? Then don't use the mag primers unless the load data call for it.

I've spurred conversations in threads here before about the confusion created on Berry's site regarding lead vs FMJ load data. In my experience the lead data usually is under-powered for Berry's and the bottom of the charge windows don't create a good pressure seal. That being said it is a safe place to start a work up.

? There's no confusion. It's all right there on their web page. You simply need to talk to the right people. That would be Painter and ID !!   

? That's not true. Some powders, like TG, don't like to be under-loaded. I wouldn't under-load any "fast" powder with poor case fill. So how's the case fill on 700X ??

I have another 150 rounds loaded that I need to shoot through, but I will adjust my C.O.L. and try the load data from Hodgedon for 124 GR BERB HBRN TP for ya. I have used it in the past and had no issues, but you all had yet to of tutored me and I didn't know as much about the things to look for.

? Yeah, we would tutor you to load a total of 6-8 next time.

The more I post on this sub-forum the more I am convinced I need a chrono, as I do not have one right now.

? No, you simply need to get a 'middle of the road' powder that can be metered. Try wiping your powder measure with anti-static wipes. And knock the handle against the PM body at the ends of the throw. See if you can find a fish tank pump, or an old barber clipper at the thrift store. Tape that to your PM !!


 

[Scarlett Pistol]

By my proportioning, you should be starting at 3.6gr if you use 1.125" OAL.

Yeah, we would tutor you to load a total of 6-8 next time.

    Ultimately this was just me being a little lazy and using a load that worked from my previous load notes. I just wasn't experienced enough back then to know to look for and notate the pressure seal. So I just loaded a bunch up again to plink, practice and see what came of them.

Then don't use the mag primers unless the load data call for it.

    No worries my Sensei Wobbly, you and the other Sensei Masters here taught me this when I encountered my issue and posted about it. You guys are champions!

    That's the problem right there.... Berry specifically states to use [b]FMJ[/b] data to load their bullets. It's in their FAQ section.
    There's no confusion. It's all right there on their web page. You simply need to talk to the right people. That would be Painter and ID !!   
    That's not true. Some powders, like TG, don't like to be under-loaded. I wouldn't under-load any "fast" powder with poor case fill. So how's the case fill on 700X ??

    Ha, to the point of confusion I am assuming your emoticon implies sarcasm. I remember some of you guys debated this in that same post I made where I had the split cases and you taught me the lesson about magnum primers.
    Case fill seems good. I'll snap a picture when I am at home. I haven't used some of the other fast powders, so I don't have reference on the poor case fill people talk about.

See if you can find a fish tank pump, or an old barber clipper at the thrift store. Tape that to your PM !!

    Is that for anti-static or are you just being funny at this point (pool on the roof of the high school sort of prank)? You know so much and help so much I might just believe a prank like that from you.

[painter]

The pump/clipper is for consistent powder density in the pm.

He's being a bit dramatic, but it would work.

I use a pretty deliberate strong whack with the handle of my Uniflow, use a baffle, and keep the powder measure at least 1/2 full and get good consistency even with tube type powders.

[Scarlett Pistol]

Ahhh, I see what the purpose would be. A vibrating part to create consistency...

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[IDescribe]

He doesn't need FMJ data for his Berry's, does he?  Hodgdon lists data for Berry's. 

[Scarlett Pistol]

    Wobbly I tried taking a picture and that was tough to get the lighting to work for inside a case. Mostly because I was using my cell phone and it wouldn't adjust for the lighting inside the case. Here's my attempt.


    I measured from the top of the case down to the powder and it came in right around 0.295". Does that help?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[jwc007]

Many more years ago than I care to remember, my very first reloaded Pistol Cartridges consisted a .356 diameter 124 grain Lyman cast Bullet over 3.3 grains of 700x, as I had plenty of it on hand from loading 12 gauge Trap loads.  It managed to just operate the action of my WWII P38 and all was good!  For awhile that is.  I quickly found that other powders yielded more velocity and the only reason that load worked was that the Recoil Springs on that old Pistol were almost worn out.

As soon as I ran out of 700x from reloading Trap loads, I dropped it from my inventory.  I did experiment some with 700x in the .45 ACP and .38 Special, and while those loads worked well, it just was not good enough for me to bother with.

[Scarlett Pistol]

Many more years ago than I care to remember, my very first reloaded Pistol Cartridges consisted a .356 diameter 124 grain Lyman cast Bullet over 3.3 grains of 700x, as I had plenty of it on hand from loading 12 gauge Trap loads.  It managed to just operate the action of my WWII P38 and all was good!  For awhile that is.  I quickly found that other powders yielded more velocity and the only reason that load worked was that the Recoil Springs on that old Pistol were almost worn out.

As soon as I ran out of 700x from reloading Trap loads, I dropped it from my inventory.  I did experiment some with 700x in the .45 ACP and .38 Special, and while those loads worked well, it just was not good enough for me to bother with.

I know it's sub-par... It's all I could find during the great shortage so after I went through 1lb I bought 8lbs. I couldn't sell the 8lb jug and now I'm stuck with it. Once it's gone I won't buy anymore.

[1SOW]

I bought 4# of CSB5,  a Spanish shotgun powder (used by Rio shells),  very small light discs that may be somewhat similar to your 700x.
Very light and fluffy discs the same exact size as the primer flash hole
,  4.5 GRS does get around 130pf and fills the case to be AT the base of the bullet,  but it's as dirty or a little more so than 7625.
It went bang and shot okay,  but nothing to get excited about.
I also bought this during the powder shortage,  but "can" use it for 9mm.
I can't bring myself to toss it.