Author Topic: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?  (Read 7848 times)

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Offline bsand

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2017, 12:27:51 AM »
New batch of reloads with Winchester primers. I have about 750 rounds left.

I'll tear it apart tomorrow before my steel challenge match. I had about 2 in 10 failure to fires with CCI. But these Winchester ones are horrible. I keep trying to tell my buddy that I don't think the primers are seated enough, but he's fairly adamant that flush is OK. I don't really want to argue with the guy, as I still want to use his press lol. I think my plan of attack is to use a micrometer and measure primer depth then pocket depth, to confirm that the primers anvil is being fully seated.

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Offline Earl Keese

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2017, 12:34:03 AM »
New batch of ammo points to the ammo. Mine always seat below flush, though the depth varies. Is he using sorted brass or mixed headstamps?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 12:42:36 AM by Earl Keese »

Offline 1SOW

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2017, 01:27:19 AM »
Primers must be FULLY seated,  and for 9mm that is below flush.  Seat them as deep as they'll go.
The three anvils inside your primer have to be grounded  (pushed up against the primer compound) to get a bang when the firing pin hits.

If they don't fire on the first strike and then fire on the second or third strike ,  they are being fully seated by your firing pin.

If you're old enough to have used them, its just like an old fashioned cap gun.  The cap must be flush against the metal portion of the toy gun (the anvil)  so the hammer strike can make it go bang. ;D

It takes a little more force to seat the harder CCI primers fully,  and some 9mm cases are tougher brass that add to the force needed to seat the primer.   PPU cases are harder/thicker brass than CCI or FC brass.  WIN is tougher brass than FC.   
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 01:36:19 AM by 1SOW »

Offline bsand

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2017, 01:29:18 AM »
New batch of ammo points to the ammo. Mine always seat below flush, though the depth varies. Is he using sorted brass or mixed headstamps?
It's all range pick up brass, that we pick up from every match and the action bays. Random head stamps.

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I will try to talk to my buddy tomorrow about it. I even told him before that they should be seated deeper, I think next batch I'm going to reload my own ammo on his press. Get everything dialed in properly. Werid thing is, his 40 ammo never fails in his STI limited nor the 9 mm in his HK vp9.

Just in a Ruger American pistol and my Cz.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 01:31:32 AM by bsand »

Offline 1SOW

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2017, 01:38:20 AM »
The limited pistol is SA only with a strong hammer hit. 

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2017, 08:04:10 AM »
New batch of ammo points to the ammo. Mine always seat below flush, though the depth varies. Is he using sorted brass or mixed headstamps?
It's all range pick up brass, that we pick up from every match and the action bays. Random head stamps.

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I will try to talk to my buddy tomorrow about it. I even told him before that they should be seated deeper, I think next batch I'm going to reload my own ammo on his press. Get everything dialed in properly. Werid thing is, his 40 ammo never fails in his STI limited nor the 9 mm in his HK vp9.

Just in a Ruger American pistol and my Cz.
I'd want to load my own anyway. You can feel when the primers are fully seated and when they aren't.

Offline bsand

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2017, 08:13:14 PM »
Confirmed I have an extended firing pin measured 2.4975". I had about 12 double hits in 300 rounds today.

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I've also measured some round and they are 0.000-0.0025" below flush. I measured the factory ammo I got and well it's 0.0055" consistently.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 10:04:07 PM by bsand »

Offline SoCal

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2017, 12:04:56 PM »
All my 9 MM primers seat below flush BUT also check the firing pin channel in the slide, a little crud can there might cause light strikes.
If I had known how much better being retired is than working I would have done it FIRST.

Offline bsand

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2017, 12:15:37 PM »
The channel is spotless. I checked after the first round of failures.

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Offline IDescribe

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2017, 12:37:58 PM »
If your primers are firing on the second strike, the problem is that they're not fully seated.  Period.  That's an easy diagnosis. 

Your trigger return spring has ZERO to do with how hard the hammer falls.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 09:47:19 PM by IDescribe »

Offline bsand

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2017, 01:26:08 PM »
Yep that's what I think too. I'm going to be loading some ammo up today. Will make sure to double seat the primers

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Offline IDescribe

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2017, 09:51:33 PM »
I don't know about "double" seating.  I'm not sure a second application of force at the same level is going to get it deeper.  You need more force on the first stroke.  Just put a little more ass in it.

And make sure you wear eye protection.

Offline tim.garoutte

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2017, 10:02:50 PM »
It would be easy enough to put the other trigger return spring and test with the same batch of ammo. That will rule out any TRS issue.

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2017, 11:47:11 PM »
As mentioned previously, there is no need to trouble shoot the TRS, it has nothing to do with striking the primer.

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: How much would reduced trigger spring lower pull weight?
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2017, 01:21:48 AM »
    My reloading system (Hornady LNL Auto Progressive) got a little dirty down by the part that presses upwards and seats the primer. I didn't realize it and this led to the part unscrewing a little. This meant it fell out of spec, and my primers seemed seated, but weren't deep enough. Had very similar problems to what you are describing.
    Is your firing pin spring the reduced power version? If not I would order one just to get the most out of the 13 lb hammer spring. CZ Customer and Cajun Gun Works both have them. The extended firing pin, reduced power firing pin spring, and the 13 lb hammer spring should ignite everything 100% of the time. As was mentioned, the reduced power trigger return spring has no impact on the force of the hammer impacting the firing pin, so your upgrade to that part bears no weight in the issue.
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