Author Topic: 9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !  (Read 8116 times)

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Offline cb

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2006, 01:41:42 PM »
i have seen pics of sectioned cases which agree with previous posters.  standard super cases are the thinnest at the web/case head.  the starline 9mm super comp are thicker and i assume the 38 supercomp are too.  the winchester is the strongest brass.

some old articles i have from when the 9x23 first came on the market, suggest that the extra thick 9x23 cases were intended to contain the 9x23 pressures in an UN ramped barrel.  i actually have a barsto unramped 9x23 barrel in my alloy commander - although i have only shot warm 38 super in it so far.  

i have some starline 9mm supercomp brass and i can echo the previous comment about poor neck tension; at least when using that brass in my 38 super dies.  i suspect that supercomp brass in a true 9x23 sizing die would work fine.  i can't remember for sure, but i think i was using a 38 special sizing die on my 9mm supercomp brass to get proper neck tension.  i used this brass in my unramped barsto barrel for the extra strenth - with no problems when loading to warm 38 super levels (not up to 9x23 pressure).

i did blow out some standard 38 super cases in that gun, but i never had a supercomp case fail.


Seismic-Sam

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2006, 02:07:10 PM »
Your and Mrs. Fred's SASS handles are???  

ch: Have you measured any 9x23 velocities with your guns?
Anybody else??

Offline ReloaderFred

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2006, 05:35:36 PM »
Sam,
PM sent.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs

patmandu

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2006, 06:49:04 PM »
I plan to make a trip ro the range real soon.  It's been at least three months now.  I'm way overdue.  I am self employed and contrary to what you may have heard (or maybe I'm doing things wrong), I don't usually get to just take off and go to the range, I am too busy with my day job and this heat is about to bake me.  (I'm a cabinet maker and do a lot of work out on the job that has no air conditioning.)

Anyway I will ,without fail, chronograph some of my loads, but I am still working them up and they may not be at the top yet.   Gotta start somewhere though.  I've had a couple of trips to the range with them and at first they had pistol primers which were promply replaced by rifle primers (of course).  I started using rifle primers in 38 super also.  They are way stiffer than 38 supers in recoil, but last time I was having trouble with the sun messing up my chrono readings and quit trying to get a reading.

I'll report them soon.  I should be up to about 1400 or so with my 130 gr loads, but that isn't extreme at all.

-Pat

Offline atblis

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2006, 06:28:02 AM »
I've been reloading the 9x23 and 38SC in Lee deluxe carbide 9x19 dies and it seems to work fine.  The loads come in exactly at the  tight side of what I think are the dimension for the 9x23 (See picture).



Paul needs to be gotten rid of.  Clark I actually like.  I totally agree with him about the CZ52.

Offline cb

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2006, 10:04:34 AM »
sam, i have not measured velocities.  i don't have a chrono which is one reason i haven't pushed my handloads very far.  based on various sources, i guesstimate some of my loads are pushing 147gr jhp around 1200 fps and 125gr jhp around 1300-1350 fps.  i am not real aggressive with my loads.  mostly i shoot light target loads at paper -  125gr lfp around 1000 fps.

if i am reading that 9x23 diagram correctly, the case is tapered.  i think the 9x19 is too but the super is not.  i suspect the 9mm supercomp cases are intended to be sized in a tapered die.  i think that explains my troubles with neck tension.  i will keep my eyes open for a 9x19 sizer.

has anyone sectioned 38 supercomp cases?  now i wonder if they are as strong as the 9mm supercomp, but intended for the straight 38 super sizing die?  or perhaps they are no stronger than standard super cases, but without the semi-rim?


patmandu

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2006, 11:28:27 AM »
Now I feel bad !  I really didn't mean to slander Clark.  I just wanted to say that he performs tests that some of us might not want to try.  Since he is still with us, I am affirming that he must be careful and calculating with his techniques.  I am somewhat impressed with his knowledge and the fact that he carries his research further than most.  I am impressed with his work with the CZ and the Star pistols.  

Too late now, I already put my foot in my mouth !  

I have an image showing cross sections of 38SA and 9X23, but I guess I have to upload them to an internet server host site to show them here, right?

-Pat


Offline ReloaderFred

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2006, 01:41:22 PM »
It was my understanding that the High Road banned Clark from posting for awhile because he was publishing loads that were way off the charts and were downright dangerous.  I don't know what his background is, but I would say that loading ammunition just to see what it takes to blow up a gun is a little on the far side of reasonable, without the controlled conditions of a full blown testing lab, such as H. P. White, etc.

The problem with the internet is some people take what's posted as gospel, not knowing the poster or their background.  In some cases, I even wonder at the motivation behind some of the posts I've read.  Is the poster the same guy who breaks the windows out of a car parked alongside the highway, or just likes to see people hurt themselves, or is there something more sinister behind it?  

I prefer the safer, sane approach to things and certainly don't trust some Walter Mitty, armchair commando, anonymous person for advice.  I guess it's just my naturally suspicious nature from dealing with the dark side of humanity for so many years.

Sorry for the small rant, but it's kind of a pet peeve of mine.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs

Offline atblis

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2006, 08:06:41 AM »
I didn't want to fork over the cash for 9x23 dies, so I tried using 9x19 dies.  Works great.

Clark is an engineer if I remember correctly (surprise surprise).  The distance that his handloads were off the chart (without catastrophic failures) were what was so interesting.

Some of the people (moderators) on the highroad are a bit too up tight.

Offline Stuart

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2006, 07:59:56 AM »
Just for info..here are some cross sections..




Offline ReloaderFred

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2006, 08:40:26 AM »
eerw,

Those are excellent photographs!  Thank you for posting them and showing the actual differences in base thickness between the different calibers.  Your photos clearly show that 9x23 brass is much thicker in the areas where it needs to be strong, which is exactly what the designers intended.

Thanks again.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs

Brett-M-Miller-czechpistols82792

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2006, 10:30:10 AM »
Hey Fred, what was the cost on that 9x23 barrel?  What lengths do they offer those barrels in?

thanks

Offline ReloaderFred

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2006, 01:07:39 PM »
Brett,

I bought two of the 6' Nowlin barrels from a guy on ebay about three years ago.  I think I paid $125.00 each for them, if I remember correctly.  Both barrels needed to be fitted, but the quality is excellent.  Those were the only Witness barrels he had listed, so I don't know if there were others available.  I've got Nowlin's catalog from the SHOT Show, and he doesn't list anything for the Witness pistols as standard items.  

I don't remember the seller's name, but he was out of Long Island, NY, and most of his Nowlin parts were for 1911's.  If I can find the information, I'll post it for you.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs

Brett-M-Miller-czechpistols82792

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2006, 07:06:54 AM »
Thanks, Fred!  

Isn't this a great community?  I swear, this board and others is (almost) as much a reason I enjoy CZ-style pistols as the pistols themselves!

Offline ReloaderFred

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9X23 anyone? Hey Fred & Sam !
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2006, 08:59:08 AM »
You're welcome, Brett.  It is a good board and most of the people involved are very helpful, which is as it should be.  We've got one or two who try to force feed their ideas, but the majority are here to either share their knowledge or obtain some knowledge.  It's a good feeling to be able to help someone and to prevent them from making a mistake or wasting some hard earned money, when some of us have already tried what they are contemplating and either found it didn't work as planned, or wasn't worth either the effort or the money.

On the other hand, some of us have come up with ideas to make life easier in our chosen endeavors, and feel we should share that knowledge to help others.  I feel all the moderators fall into that catagory.

Keep posting, I like your posts.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs