Experiences at the Range with your Braced Scorpion

[provvv]

Guys,

I have a sort of funny story. As I've mentioned here before, I finally just got back my Scorpion trigger pack back from CZ, so today was literally the first day I've been able to shoot it.  I took it to the range where I'm a member and used the indoor pistol facility, and it had more people shooting there that day than normal.

So, I have my pistol Shockwave braced Scorpion and I'm already super self-conscious about making sure I do not "shoulder" it.  I'm not sure about how your guy's ranges are, but at mine everyone is a busy body and it is very irritating and it has nothing to do with "safety," they're just nosy (90% of the time these guys talk to you they give you information that contradicts the rules of the range).

As I'm reloading the first magazine this guy stops me and asks if I'm a new shooter. I'm a little surprised because he wasn't the first guy who stopped me that day but the other guy stopped me to say how "accurate" the Scorpion must be because I had a small group (fluke--I'm not a good shot yet).  But I say to the second guy, "I am a new shooter--can you tell?" and he says, "I haven't looked at your target, but I noticed how you're shouldering that rifle... you need to put it against your shoulder when you shoot it."  And then I explain that I can't legally shoulder this pistol because it would hurt the ATF's feelings. He then says, "I bet you not a single guy at this range knows about that rule" and I say, "yes I agree, but it's better to be safe than sorry."  As a side note, the first guy who mentioned the accuracy to me also wasn't aware of the brace/shouldering rule.

So in short, by NOT shouldering the Scorpion, the people around me at the range, think I don't know how to shoot a gun.    How ironic is that? This entire time I was so worried that I was going to get backlash at the range for even having a brace, and I was sort of right, but for the wrong reasons. 

I have to say I'm surprised because I knew about the "brace" controversy since before I had any interest at all in a firearm that used a brace, and I have only been interested in guns since June.

The question is: What is your experience with using a braced pistol at a range? Have you gone completely unnoticed? Have you had to explain to people the ATF rule?

tl;dr I was self-conscious about using a braced pistol at the range because I was afraid people would be hyper-vigilant to make sure it never touched my shoulder, and as it turned out, people were hyper-vigilant, but they were commenting to me that the brace should be touching my shoulder because they weren't aware of the ATF brace ruling.  They thought I was "shouldering" a "stock" completely wrong (I was cheeking it) and I didn't know how to shoot. 

[SouthernScorpion]

 That guy was an atf agent, and was just trying to set you up.    j/k?   

 I go to an outdoor public range. Never had anyone give me a second look, other than to say they thought the scorp was "cool" or "neat".

Just takes that one guy, though... so I remain cautious and aware.

[cocowheats]

Now I'm not advocating people go out and blatantly shoulder these pistol braces without a tax stamp...But how would one know your firearm in NOT a registered SBR and you simply use a brace as a stock(which would allow you to cross state lines with it without a 5320.20 permission slip)? They don't/wouldn't and unless they are an ATF agent, then it's none of their business what the firearm is registered as.

Just saying...

I have a lawyer friend with a SBR wearing a Shockwave blade. He can legally shoulder it being it's registered SBR. He can take it across state lines without a 5320.20 provided he doesn't shoulder it across state lines without the 5320.20.

[provvv]

Now I'm not advocating people go out and blatantly shoulder these pistol braces without a tax stamp...But how would one know your firearm in NOT a registered SBR and you simply use a brace as a stock(which would allow you to cross state lines with it without a 5320.20 permission slip)? They don't/wouldn't and unless they are an ATF agent, then it's none of their business what the firearm is registered as.

Just saying...

They could ask to see if its engraved? But that would still be a serious breach of privacy--one which would be akin to Germany in WWII (I hate using Nazi references--but y'all know what I mean).

[cocowheats]

Now I'm not advocating people go out and blatantly shoulder these pistol braces without a tax stamp...But how would one know your firearm in NOT a registered SBR and you simply use a brace as a stock(which would allow you to cross state lines with it without a 5320.20 permission slip)? They don't/wouldn't and unless they are an ATF agent, then it's none of their business what the firearm is registered as.

Just saying...

They could ask to see if its engraved? But that would still be a serious breach of privacy--one which would be akin to Germany in WWII (I hate using Nazi references--but y'all know what I mean).

And at that point you could tell them to **** off and leave you to your range time that they are impeding on...

[provvv]

Now I'm not advocating people go out and blatantly shoulder these pistol braces without a tax stamp...But how would one know your firearm in NOT a registered SBR and you simply use a brace as a stock(which would allow you to cross state lines with it without a 5320.20 permission slip)? They don't/wouldn't and unless they are an ATF agent, then it's none of their business what the firearm is registered as.

Just saying...

They could ask to see if its engraved? But that would still be a serious breach of privacy--one which would be akin to Germany in WWII (I hate using Nazi references--but y'all know what I mean).

And at that point you could tell them to **** off and leave you to your range time that they are impeding on...

I know right! From my experience with people at ranges, I really wouldn't be surprised to see this happen, which is why I was so shocked today that no one knew about the brace/shoulder ATF opinion letter.

[SouthernScorp]

theoretically one could put a 2 layer thick strip of black electric tape on there upper receiver and then shoulder the weapon at a range... but then there's the possibility of a leo on premises that might want you to peel that back

[armoredman]

The major thing is don't break the law, no matter how stupid it may be. I run a Thordsen's cheek rest on the Scorpion, seen here.

https://youtu.be/_bpOOPzs0jg

Perhaps with the new Administration we can move forward with getting rid of SBR/SBS off the NFA, maybe not. We stand a half way decent chance of getting suppressors back, so...we'll see.

[SouthernScorp]

Perhaps with the new Administration we can move forward with getting rid of SBR/SBS off the NFA, maybe not. We stand a half way decent chance of getting suppressors back, so...we'll see.

That would be nice, sure beats waiting bleep near a year plus paying taxes and fees. According to the daniel defense newsletter we americans have an actual need for suppressors, as a medical aid to keep us for damaging our hearing and running up medical cost for hearing loss.

[KevGuillot]

The major thing is don't break the law, no matter how stupid it may be. I run a Thordsen's cheek rest on the Scorpion, seen here.

https://youtu.be/_bpOOPzs0jg

Perhaps with the new Administration we can move forward with getting rid of SBR/SBS off the NFA, maybe not. We stand a half way decent chance of getting suppressors back, so...we'll see.

But it's not law, it's an opinion letter. ATF can't make laws, only Congress can.

[akuser47]

I'll take suppressors of sbr, lol both would be great though.

[wanderson]

FWIW the first Scorpions I saw in action were at my public range and were owned by two off duty LEO's. One was an SBR and the other was a pistol with a Shockwave brace. Now I can't say if the brace was being shouldered, and LEO isn't ATF, but I asked their opinions on braces and they both seemed to have no problem with them, and no mention about how they're used.

I've had several people ask about my AR pistols (7.62x39 w/shockwave and 9mm with just a padded tube) and all were just curious. No one has ever accused me of wrong doing.

[ItsRainingLead]

From my understanding, it's about intent currently. If you shoulder the brace by accident, you did not intend to do that, thus you are alright. At least that's how MAC explains it.

[tcoz]

I have two good friends who both have Scorpion pistols.  In spite of my protestations one of them put a stock on his and shoots it all the time on his private property.  The other one has a Shockwave but shoulders it all the time at the public range.  Both of them think I'm overreacting when I tell them that they could go to prison and incur a huge fine.  Needless to say, I don't shoot either of their Scorpions

[Mr.E.G.]

The major thing is don't break the law, no matter how stupid it may be. I run a Thordsen's cheek rest on the Scorpion, seen here.

https://youtu.be/_bpOOPzs0jg

Perhaps with the new Administration we can move forward with getting rid of SBR/SBS off the NFA, maybe not. We stand a half way decent chance of getting suppressors back, so...we'll see.

But it's not law, it's an opinion letter. ATF can't make laws, only Congress can.

I understand the point you're trying to make and agree with you that this is how it's supposed to work, but the technical way you'll get poured out in court is that they are not creating any law, they are interpreting an existing law.