First time CZ owner/reloader

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

So the suggestion is to pull all the bullets out with the "blue" puller I have. Ok.
Is it possible for me to just seat the bullets further?
I have a very light crimp on them and I tried re-seating one round and it moved with nearly no effort at all. Is this a bad idea?

Yes it's a bad idea as I posted earlier NEVER EVER reseat bullets that have been loaded and crimped. You can affect the neck tension and cause bullet set back on feeding which can cause unsafe pressure spikes and cause a catastrophic failure and if your lucky it will only be your gun that gets ruined. Just don't do it.

[fdmyrick73]

thanks everyone.
I'll update once I've pulled the bullets.
Is there anything specific I should look for?

Also, I had mentioned that during crimping (not on every case) there were very tiny pieces of brass coming off the die when I crimped. What would cause this? I'm barely crimping.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

It is normal too see some very small slivers of brass you just want to be sure you are not over crimping when seating bullets as this can cause dangerously high pressures and headspace issues as well.

[SoCal]

I use a wooden block and give it several hard whacks, works for me.

Also, this is a good time to inspect your bullets to hake sure you have not been using too much crimp.

[ReloaderFred]

So the suggestion is to pull all the bullets out with the "blue" puller I have. Ok.
Is it possible for me to just seat the bullets further?
I have a very light crimp on them and I tried re-seating one round and it moved with nearly no effort at all. Is this a bad idea?

Yes it's a bad idea as I posted earlier NEVER EVER reseat bullets that have been loaded and crimped. You can affect the neck tension and cause bullet set back on feeding which can cause unsafe pressure spikes and cause a catastrophic failure and if your lucky it will only be your gun that gets ruined. Just don't do it.

Pulled bullets are sold by the millions by several different vendors.  I've loaded and shot several thousand myself, so a blanket statement that they should NEVER EVER be loaded is incorrect.  Jacketed bullets don't normally get reduced much, if at all, during this process.  Plated bullets and cast bullets will in most cases.  Prudent measurements will tell you if this is the case or not.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[fdmyrick73]

So the suggestion is to pull all the bullets out with the "blue" puller I have. Ok.
Is it possible for me to just seat the bullets further?
I have a very light crimp on them and I tried re-seating one round and it moved with nearly no effort at all. Is this a bad idea?

Yes it's a bad idea as I posted earlier NEVER EVER reseat bullets that have been loaded and crimped. You can affect the neck tension and cause bullet set back on feeding which can cause unsafe pressure spikes and cause a catastrophic failure and if your lucky it will only be your gun that gets ruined. Just don't do it.

Pulled bullets are sold by the millions by several different vendors.  I've loaded and shot several thousand myself, so a blanket statement that they should NEVER EVER be loaded is incorrect.  Jacketed bullets don't normally get reduced much, if at all, during this process.  Plated bullets and cast bullets will in most cases.  Prudent measurements will tell you if this is the case or not.

Hope this helps.

Fred

What I meant by "re-seat" is to NOT pull the bullet, but just press it down further in to the case.
I plan on reuse of the bullets I pull from these cases.
What I've understood is I MUST pull the bullets before seating them at the correct depth to obtain my correct OAL

[ReloaderFred]

I've reseated bullets that were too long in the past, but the best practice is to pull them, resize the brass after removing the decapping pin, and then load them as new components.  That way you'll know each step is done properly.  If these were being fired in a revolver, I'd say just reseat them, but since you're shooting them through a semi-auto handgun, where they'll hit the feedramp, it's best to start over.

You can test this by measuring the OAL on a couple and then cycle them from the magazine without firing them.  Then measure the OAL length again and see if they've moved.  If so, then you'll need to start from scratch.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

So the suggestion is to pull all the bullets out with the "blue" puller I have. Ok.
Is it possible for me to just seat the bullets further?
I have a very light crimp on them and I tried re-seating one round and it moved with nearly no effort at all. Is this a bad idea?

Yes it's a bad idea as I posted earlier NEVER EVER reseat bullets that have been loaded and crimped. You can affect the neck tension and cause bullet set back on feeding which can cause unsafe pressure spikes and cause a catastrophic failure and if your lucky it will only be your gun that gets ruined. Just don't do it.

Pulled bullets are sold by the millions by several different vendors.  I've loaded and shot several thousand myself, so a blanket statement that they should NEVER EVER be loaded is incorrect.  Jacketed bullets don't normally get reduced much, if at all, during this process.  Plated bullets and cast bullets will in most cases.  Prudent measurements will tell you if this is the case or not.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Fred, you misunderstand what I said. I said don't reseat the bullets after they have been seated and crimped not anything about re-using pulled bullets which is a different matter. I have no problem with re-using pulled bullets at all but as far as reseating or seating the bullets deeper after they have been loaded that's all up to you if you or anyone else cares to engage in that practice. Not safe not smart.
What's the value of a few rounds of out of spec ammo VS the value of a firearm or your fingers.

[fdmyrick73]

I'm just going to tape the box of rounds I've made shut and label them as no go
I'll start over and be on the safe side

[Wobbly]

OK then. I thought I should be following the instructions that say never hit it on concrete but use a wooden block.

Those instructions are outdated. We wrote those back when we considered Painter a blockhead.

 

[Boris_LA]

Also, from the data I've seen, 4.0 grains of TITEGROUP is correct. Can anyone verify this for me please?

4.0Gr of TG may or not be correct. Depending on bullets seating depth. For example loading short JHP may take 3.5-3.6gr only and longer FMJ may take a bit more like 4.1-4.2gr of TG.
I would recommend you to put those away for now (as you did) and start a new ladder with shorter OAL and starting powder load. After you done and analyze your new ladder, you can see if shorting (reseating) those longer rounds is still in the safe zone or too risky.

[Dan_69GTX]

Wobbly, now would that be a cinder BLOCK or a wooden BLOCK??  (sorry).


I keep a 4" long piece of 6x6 wooden block on the reloading bench.  I hold that in my hand as I hit it with the kinnetic hammer.  It is much quieter than either hitting the hammer on the loading bench or when hitting the hammer on the wooden block while the block is resting on the bench.  No concrete around, the floor is a wood floor with carpet. (great for hiding the dropped primers).

And yes, it sometimes takes a few hard whacks with the hammer!

[Wobbly]

Buy a bullet puller and disassemble those rounds.

I agree. There's nothing quite like starting over to drive home the point on being really careful.

NEVER EVER reseat bullets that have already been seated and crimped.

I really hate rules that are always true/false no matter what. And this is one of those rules.

I notice in an earlier post you mentioned small pieces of brass coming off the cases during crimping.

Good point, this deserves comment too.

The shavings are most likely being taken off the soft copper bullet, and that is generally NOT a good sign because the bullets diameter is being decreased. So the good tight fit in the barrel is being decreased by some amount.

Typically, this situation is caused when the user is not applying enough "belling" or "flair" to the case during the case expansion step. As measured on the case exterior, you should generally see an increase in case mouth diameter of roughly 0.010". For lead bullets, you may need more. For FMJ you may need less. But the shavings are always a warning sign to stop and adjust your dies and process.

[Wobbly]

I'm just going to tape the box of rounds I've made shut and label them as no go
I'll start over and be on the safe side.

Please disassemble them. You'll forget what they are and one day in a rush to get out the door you'll grab them. Everything in reloading is built around safety. Start practicing now. 

[IDescribe]

I'd reseat and shoot them.   Personally, I have no interest in removing and reseating live primers, and I have no interest in removing my depriming pin from my sizing die to avoid depriming, and I have no interest in breaking down bullets, in general, so I reserve deconstruction only for those times when I have potentially dangerous or entirely unusable cartridges.  I would seat deeper and shoot them.    My apologies for disagreeing with the community opinion, but I'm lazy.  

WARNING:  Seating bullets deeper after the cartridge is complete is NOT the same as, and should never be confused with, seating a PRIMER deeper after the cartridge has been completed.  Primers do occasionally detonate during seating, and if you detonate a primer with a bullet and powder charge in the cartridge, that's going to be one extraordinarily bad day.  Never reseat a primer on a completed cartridge.

You have another thing you might want to do here.  Now that the push test has gotten you in the ball park for MAX OAL, you might want to consider getting an even more precise maximum.  Sometimes the push test works out perfectly. Sometimes it misses by a hundredth or two.  My CZ Shadow Line has a shorter than average throat, and my max with the Berry's FP is 1.069, so I would be a little suspicious that your 1.060 might be a hundredth or two off as a true MAX.  Now that you have that ball park number, if you want an even more precise number, load a dummy round to 1.090, spin test it, looking for it to chamber completely and spin with zero drag.  Then seat a little deeper, a little deeper, shortening it maybe .003 at a time, checking it each time, until it spins with zero drag.  That will be your true max.  It might match your push test perfectly, or it might be a little longer.  I had little doubt that the OAL you were giving us earlier that you were saying was fine was in fact way too long, but I suspect that 1.060 could be a little short, and this will give you a path to verifying the max OAL.  Then knock .010-.015 off of that for a working max.

 
As to your charges of Titegroup...  The rule of thumb when you have multiple sources for load data is to go with the most conservative -- the lightest load window.  In this case, despite multiple sources with some lighter than what you were planning on, I'd say you're fine at 4.0gr.  The Hodgdon data for a short OAL lead bullet is 3.9gr - 4.3gr.  Their data for 115gr plated GDHP is 4.5gr - 4.8gr, though at a little longer OAL.  I simply wouldn't sweat 4.0gr as a starting load for that bullet, even without my own experience with Titegroup.  And in my personal case, I have plenty of experience with Titegroup, and I load 3.9gr of TG with 125gr lead bullets and 4.1gr with 124gr JHP for 9mm minor competition loads, so 4.0gr of TG with a lighter plated bullet is nothing to worry about. 


Again, get a more precise reading on your OAL max.  It's great that you finally did the push test, but 1.06 might be little short, and there is something more you can do to get the number a little more precise.  

Let us know.

Also, there is another stickie in this subforum titled "First Year Reloading:  Issues and Insights" located here:  http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=59920.0

It's not exactly a "how to" reload, but it's close enough that you would definitely learn some stuff from it if you haven't already read it.  It's not the end all of reloading, but there's quite a bit of some informative stuff in it.