Hornady Lock N Load AP Press Tuning

[tdogg]

Loaded another 200 rounds tonight.  Zero issues with the pivot block and my OAL range was again very consistent (1.126-1.133 inch).  I also spent some time cleaning and lubing the press.  It's running very smoothly now.  I'll hold off claiming victory until I can get a few thousand reloaded without issue.

Cheers,
Toby

[Wobbly]

Tdogg, your thread is a runaway hit with over 7000 hits.

Watch out or they'll make you a Moderator .   

[tdogg]

Is that how it works, you have to be popular?!  I'm definitely not worried about that happening.  Usually I manage to kill threads with my comments not  promote further discussion.

I'd welcome the extra pay and notoriety I get for the service!   

I'm off to do something productive, like reload more.

Cheers,
Toby

[tdogg]

Alright, final update (until I find something else to share).  I reloaded another 367 40 S&W (last of my Gallant coated bullets) and 100 9mm.  Not a single glitch with the new pivot adapter.  My press hasn't run this smooth in a long time.  I will keep tab's on it and if anything crops up update this thread.  Still not claiming victory yet but I'm feeling pretty good about it right now.

Cheers,
Toby

[tdogg]

Update:

My original (homemade) PVC pivot block started to get a dimple on it from the pivot binding and it started hanging up again.  This hang-up leads to a minute amount of resistance that ultimately induces OAL variation.

So I designed and printed a new pivot block on my 3D printer.  I incorporated thrust bearings and changed the angle on the ramp to minimize the vertical force applied to the pivot block.  The thrust washers raise the pivot block off the bracket and it pivots very smooth and free now.  I'm hopeful this fix will be the end all but I'm not calling it yet.  I will report out after I load a ton with it.

https://rumble.com/vdvefz-lnl-ap-case-feeder-pivot-block-fix.html

Cheers,
Toby

[Dan_69GTX]

Cool!  Looks like you have a spring or something attached to the backside of the block (away from the camera)?

Where did you get the thrust bearings from?  Got a part number?

Thanks for the update!!!

[Wobbly]

That is really great stuff !

[Dan_69GTX]

I'll add a link to a post I created to help prevent the bushings (used to swap dies) from coming loose:

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=95735.msg736102#msg736102

[tdogg]

Cool!  Looks like you have a spring or something attached to the backside of the block (away from the camera)?

Where did you get the thrust bearings from?  Got a part number?

Thanks for the update!!!

Yeah, sorry I didn't show the spring on this video.  If you go a couple of posts up this thread of the first pivot block update video where I highlight the PVC pivot block, it shows the spring.  It is a spring I got from Wolff gun springs that must have been an error as it was supposed to be a firing pin spring for a CZ but it is way too long.  I cut it down and repurposed it for this and it is working great.

The bolt that holds on the pivot block is a 1/4-20.  The thrust bearing is a NTA-411.  It is too thick to use with the stock pivot block as it will raise it up too high and 9mm cases (and anything shorter) will sit recessed into the pivot and the system won't work.

Cheers,
Toby

[Dan_69GTX]

Wow - Grainger has specs on that bearing of max of 25100 RPM.  I'm guessing you run your press a little slower than that?!?

Thanks for the info!!

[CzechnoWizard]

Very nice thread. To whomever asked about whether the Hornady feeder is worth buying of if blue paint would make it better....

I broke down and ordered the red one on a black Friday deal and have already run about 3000 rounds thru it. No rifle calibers yet but 9mm,40,45,38 have all been easily set up. The only issue I've experienced is occasional jams where the cases drop thru the notched wheel into the drop tube. They need to drop near the center of the "funnel" at the top of the tube. If they drop too early or too late they may drag on the funnel and not leave the wheel fast enough to avoid getting trapped against the opposite side. Hornady provides an adjustable metal "gate" which may be handy for rifle rounds but pistol rounds either need the wheel rotation reversed or they need an adjustable gate on the other side. For now, an index card and binder clip provided a quick fix. 

Other observations  - the wheel picks up cases much more reliably when there are a couple handfuls of cases in the hopper. The last few cases seem to linger forever and not get picked up.

357 cases seem too long to work in the pistol discs. They are so long the head isn't heavy enough to stand them up in the wheel. I wonder if a small rifle plate would actually work better on long pistol cases

Properly adjusted, the pivot block system actually works to prevent an errant long case from being introduced to the dies. I had  a couple 357s sneak in with my 38 spl cases and the pivot block caught them. Took me a minute to see why the process stopped, but I was actually pleased to see it prevent a bigger problem.

The motor starts/stops alot when you are rocking and rolling in full production. The brass in the hopper makes a good racket. I've taken to running it to fill the drop tube then turning off the motor until the drop tube is nearly empty. I would like to set up a foot switch I  can step on to run the feeder motor  periodically.  This would limit the noise and the frequent reaching for the switch. 

All things considered I've been very impressed with how well this works out of the box. I did take my time with assembly and "tuned" it as i assembled it but I tend to "perfect" anything as I assemble it. I would buy this again in a heartbeat as it dramatically increased my productivity and freed me up to pay more attention to checking powder drop and setting bullets. I've always regarded blue equipment as overpriced and my experience with this red feeder has reinforced my opinion on that matter.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Wobbly]

Very nice thread. To whomever asked about whether the Hornady feeder is worth buying of if blue paint would make it better....

I broke down and ordered the red one on a black Friday deal and have already run about 3000 rounds thru it.

I own a 2-speed Blue model and they are much the same. 100-150 cases is about optimal. (You have to stop and load primers anyway.) There is an occasional snag at the top when cases don't drop fast enough. (The latest Blue model is variable speed, and this might help solve this.) And of course, the last 3 cases can take forever to fall. But that's simply due to the cases randomly landing heavy-end down in the rotating plate.

The biggest difference between Red and Blue case feeders is not in the physical case feeder, but how the machines handle the case between the feed tube and the shell plate. That 2.5" journey makes all the difference.

 

[CzechnoWizard]

You know, I have an inexpensive variable speed gizmo you can plug in between a power tool and the socket. Use it on my router to slow down large diameter bits. I should try that to see if it will slow the shell disc inside the hopper........

Might prevent the jams and reduce the noise too!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[tdogg]

If your having case feeder jams up top, this is your solution.  It keeps the double stack of cases at bay and eliminates jams where they fall out of the feeder.  Pretty simple to make but also fairly inexpensive to purchase.

https://www.sassybrass.com/sassybrass/product/casecage/

Also make sure you have the updated drop tube assembly from Hornady.  It eliminates the need to change drop tubes all together (I use the large drop tube for everything).  Only have to change the feed tube/insert (above the pivot block) when changing calibers.  They sent me an update pack and a new pivot assembly when I was initially complaining about the pivot bracket binding and flexing.  The upgrade pack comes with the Cam block clamp #78, and Case feeder tip stop #77, and some other stuff I think.  If you have those parts then your case feeder is updated already.

Cheers,
Toby

[tdogg]

Very nice thread. To whomever asked about whether the Hornady feeder is worth buying of if blue paint would make it better....

I broke down and ordered the red one on a black Friday deal and have already run about 3000 rounds thru it.

I own a 2-speed Blue model and they are much the same. 100-150 cases is about optimal. (You have to stop and load primers anyway.) There is an occasional snag at the top when cases don't drop fast enough. (The latest Blue model is variable speed, and this might help solve this.) And of course, the last 3 cases can take forever to fall. But that's simply due to the cases randomly landing heavy-end down in the rotating plate.

The biggest difference between Red and Blue case feeders is not in the physical case feeder, but how the machines handle the case between the feed tube and the shell plate. That 2.5" journey makes all the difference.

 

Wobbly is right, I only have issue with the design on the pivot assembly.

My issues with the Hornady case feeder system is the pivot block design.  The case feeder up top has worked well.  The shuttle system that pushes the case into the shell plate is also sound.  Keep tabs on the pivot block assembly and when it starts to gall/wear on the pivot body bracket, you are going to start seeing the push rod start popping out the push rod bushing (mine is epoxied in place now).  That is the sign that there is rotational resistance to the pivot and this will ultimately cause the system to fail.

My analysis of the design flaws are that there isn't enough bearing surface (on the bolt that holds the pivot block on the pivot body bracket) to resist the pivot body tilting when the push rod actuates it.  This allows the pivot to rub on the pivot body bracket on the opposite side from the push rod.  Once there is wear on those surfaces (this takes time from use) the rotational resistance increases and causes the pivot to bind.  Then the whole assembly flexes upward instead of pivoting and dropping a case.  The cheap pot metal also contributes to this failure as it is super soft.  The torsion spring is unnecessary as an extension spring is more than adequate.  In addition, the angle on the pivot block is not steep enough and once there is rotational resistance, it aggravates the binding problem.

Pivot body and block wear:


My solution eliminates all of these design issues.  The thrust bearing is overkill but makes it run very smooth.  You could probably just get away with raising the pivot block off the pivot body bracket (by cutting a relief opposite the push rod or just using a washer) and changing to a steeper actuation angle.

Cheers,
Toby