Author Topic: RMR question, who to go with  (Read 2214 times)

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Offline Edward_Teach

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RMR question, who to go with
« on: May 17, 2017, 03:35:13 AM »
Ok so I have a P07 that I EDC (switched over from a glock 17 back to my p07 I've had for a little bit)

Now I was going to put an RMR on my 17, and the choices of who to do it was endless, not so much with a P07.

The main ones I have found would be CZC, L and M, Primary Machine, and Fire 4 Effect.


My question is who has experience with these guys and any suggestions on who to go with. (Must be able to have cowitness BUIS)

Pic for views

« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 05:41:06 AM by Edward_Teach »
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Offline s0nspark

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 08:22:53 AM »
I highly recommend Mark at L&M Precision Gunworks - he did a great job on both of my P-07s.
"A man's character is his fate."

Offline Rick53

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 08:47:12 AM »
I highly recommend Mark at L&M Precision Gunworks - he did a great job on both of my P-07s.
I looked into several. I would tell you for a CZ stick with CZC. Just for the fact they can set it up for any sight. I've owned 2 RMR's and now I have a Vortex venom and a Deltapoint Pro. They are by far easier to learn then the blurry screen view of the RMR.

Personally I think a RDS is stupid on EDC . 11 years ago I was involved in stopping a Robbery . Fortunately no gun fire was exchanged because I got the drop on the thieves.  What I learned from that experience is I am not a Trained Operative . Surprisingly I wasn't a bit scared: As I thought about it afterwards I wasn't even using my sights. You won't have the time or the mental fortitude, because you're in a situation you're not trained for. And your blood is pumping 1000 miles an hour. No matter how good you shoot it's impossible to prepare for going into action in a life and death scenario. Unless you are trained in that area and it's your job.

All that crap on your gun will only serve to making you look cool while your laying in your own blood.

IMO a good green laser would be way more effective .

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 09:39:17 AM »
I have dual illuminated RMRs on two CZ's and a DP Pro on another.  I resisted, at first, due to the expense of the sights and the work to get the slide milled/refinished.  I wasted two years.

If the target is more than 10 or 15 feet away you won't have a good chance of putting a bullet on it if you don't use your sights.

Can some people hit well without using sights?  Sure, with lot's of practice.

How are your eyes?  Wear glasses?  I do.  If I lose my glasses my iron sights aren't going to do me much good.  With the RMR the dot goes blurry without glasses - but I can sure as hell see the blurry dot all by itself on the target vs. the front sight being invisible to me on the target.  Same for low light conditions.  The dot is there when even with my glasses I can't see the front sight well against the target.

Once you prove to yourself, that the dot doesn't have to be centered in the lens as long as it's on the target, and then practice shooting that way it's sort of like a laser.  They can't see it, but you can.  It's faster, once you learn to draw the gun and bring it up to your plane of sight properly.

With iron sights you have to align the front and rear sights with each other and then align the front sight on the target.  Three things to keep lined up.  With the dot you just put the dot on the target.  Two things to keep lined up.

What dot/sight works best for you?  That's a personal thing.  I like the dual illuminated RMRs.  No batteries.  No electronics.  The tritium should work for 10 to 12 years (I'll be around 70 years old when I have to send them back to Trijicon for rebuild).  Some people like small dots, some big, some even like the triangles (jury is still out for me on that one, but I've got a DP Pro I'm trying out on an AR15 pistol).

If dots don't work why are they becoming so popular in so many of the competitive shooting sports?  Why are so many gun companies starting to sell handguns already "cut" for these sights?

If you don't need them that's great.  I can go to the range, with the right glasses, and shoot my CZ 85's.  To be honest, the last year of so I've shot more ammo through the CZ 85's than the P09 or P07, but I EDC the P07 with an RMR on it.  The CZ 85 stays home unless I'm going to the range.

Good luck with it.  I'm a cheap bastard.  I don't know if it's being raised by a father who grew up during the great depression or our German roots, so spending more money on an RMR than my P07 cost was tough.  Spending 1/2 as much again to get the slide milled, BUIS installed and the slide refinished was hard, too.  I've got well over $1,000 in my P07 now and it's worth it.  I'd do it again,, too.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline s0nspark

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 10:07:13 AM »
I looked into several. I would tell you for a CZ stick with CZC. Just for the fact they can set it up for any sight. I've owned 2 RMR's and now I have a Vortex venom and a Deltapoint Pro. They are by far easier to learn then the blurry screen view of the RMR.

Personally I think a RDS is stupid on EDC . 11 years ago I was involved in stopping a Robbery . Fortunately no gun fire was exchanged because I got the drop on the thieves.  What I learned from that experience is I am not a Trained Operative . Surprisingly I wasn't a bit scared: As I thought about it afterwards I wasn't even using my sights. You won't have the time or the mental fortitude, because you're in a situation you're not trained for. And your blood is pumping 1000 miles an hour. No matter how good you shoot it's impossible to prepare for going into action in a life and death scenario. Unless you are trained in that area and it's your job.

All that crap on your gun will only serve to making you look cool while your laying in your own blood.

Well... CZC's options do not cowitness with irons. That is fine for a comp gun but not for carry so it really depends on how you plan to use the gun IMO.

The RMR is not perfect but it is super rugged and has great battery life. I also have a P320RX and even though the ROMEO lens is subjectively clearer and a little wider I still prefer to shoot with the RMR. Dot size, familiarity and gun may play into that, though.

I was hesitant to spend the money to even try an RDS, despite being curious for years and feeling I would see benefit given some eye issues - I was concerned it was just another way to spend money ;-) For me, that was not the case. It made a big enough difference for me to justify carrying with one. It certainly isn't about looking cool... My carry setup is, perhaps, more than some carry - RMR'd P-07 with an X300, 1 or 2 spare mags, flashlight, tactical folder, small fixed blade and (of course) a medkit - but I hardly consider it excessive given where my life takes me.

Hindsight to date would say I could get by with an LCR or just not carry but one day hindsight might be dead wrong...

I'm really not sure why you feel the way you do about being trained... is it a time thing for you? I'm not a cop or a secret agent but I care enough about being proficient that I make dry and live fire practice and firearms classes a regular part of my life. I've also had training in trauma care and other, non-shooting disciplines. It is, I guess, a lifestyle choice more so than a hobby for me.
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Offline Yoni

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 06:17:36 PM »
I highly recommend Mark at L&M Precision Gunworks - he did a great job on both of my P-07s.
I highly recommend Mark at L&M Precision Gunworks - he did a great job on both of my P-07s.
I looked into several. I would tell you for a CZ stick with CZC. Just for the fact they can set it up for any sight. I've owned 2 RMR's and now I have a Vortex venom and a Deltapoint Pro. They are by far easier to learn then the blurry screen view of the RMR.

Personally I think a RDS is stupid on EDC . 11 years ago I was involved in stopping a Robbery . Fortunately no gun fire was exchanged because I got the drop on the thieves.  What I learned from that experience is I am not a Trained Operative . Surprisingly I wasn't a bit scared: As I thought about it afterwards I wasn't even using my sights. You won't have the time or the mental fortitude, because you're in a situation you're not trained for. And your blood is pumping 1000 miles an hour. No matter how good you shoot it's impossible to prepare for going into action in a life and death scenario. Unless you are trained in that area and it's your job.

All that crap on your gun will only serve to making you look cool while your laying in your own blood.

IMO a good green laser would be way more effective .

I have been in a lot of gun fights during my career both with handguns and shoulder fired weapons( Colt Commando, Micro and Mini Uzi).

A red dot sight is a lot faster under stress, than a laser. A red dot sight you bring up in front of your eyes and place it on the target. A laser shoots out from your gun and you must try to find where it hits on your target. We tested lasers a lot and they failed to make the grade.

I am retired now from over 25 years of chasing terrorist, I now wear reading glasses as I type this . My EDC pistols either wear big dot sights or red dots.

Offline Edward_Teach

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 10:47:30 PM »
I highly recommend Mark at L&M Precision Gunworks - he did a great job on both of my P-07s.


Thanks for the response to the actual question lol

And as for the why the need for a red dot, or the tacticool wet dream bull bleep.

Sorry but fudds will be fudds.  When it comes to even a micro fraction of an advantage perceived or otherwise during the (albeit highly unlikely) chance of a self defense situation I'm not looking for a fair fight and will take any edge I can find, and Yes this includes as much range time as I can
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Offline s0nspark

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RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2017, 10:56:22 PM »
I highly recommend Mark at L&M Precision Gunworks - he did a great job on both of my P-07s.


Thanks for the response to the actual question lol

And as for the why the need for a red dot, or the tacticool wet dream bull !@##.

Sorry but fudds will be fudds.  When it comes to even a micro fraction of an advantage perceived or otherwise during the (albeit highly unlikely) chance of a self defense situation I'm not looking for a fair fight and will take any edge I can find, and Yes this includes as much range time as I can

No problem... :)

From what I understand, optics on rifles (which are practically standard these days) were initially met with the same resistance some have to a pistol-mounted RDS.

... and I am totally with you on stacking the odds any and every way you can.  Especially with training!
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Offline Winkel

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 11:42:33 PM »
As long as we're slightly off the rails......I put a red dot (Dagger Defense) on one of my AR's and all I can say is WOW.  My 52 year old eyes have really slid lately and the dot it fantastic.

I LOVE iron sights but am having more trouble picking them lately.  I still have a decent set of flip up irons on that gun but for me, the dot acquisition is really good.

I have been getting a lot of practice with the rifles lately though.  I have a cheaper red dot on my 10/22 for shooting skunks in low light.  It made all the difference.

Sorry to not add to your original question but there's my two cents.

Offline Edward_Teach

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 05:42:43 AM »
As long as we're slightly off the rails......I put a red dot (Dagger Defense) on one of my AR's and all I can say is WOW.  My 52 year old eyes have really slid lately and the dot it fantastic.

I LOVE iron sights but am having more trouble picking them lately.  I still have a decent set of flip up irons on that gun but for me, the dot acquisition is really good.

I have been getting a lot of practice with the rifles lately though.  I have a cheaper red dot on my 10/22 for shooting skunks in low light.  It made all the difference.

Sorry to not add to your original question but there's my two cents.

Yeah I love seeing people drop red dots and all that on any one of their long guns and then follow up by saying bleep like why would you put one on a pistol. 

Again my 2 favor. arguments from people would be 1) learn to shoot with your irons. Which I already know how to do so, but why not give myself an advantage I can ie red dot

Or 2) I would never put a red dot on my carry gun, you would get crucified in court if you ever had to use it for self defense
Response: hahahahhahaha ok, 1) if you are in court over a defensive shoot one of two things happened, it was a questionable shoot or a gunhoe DA.  And if during that court process the only thing the DA can bring to the table is you have a red dot, well then your lawyer should have you home that day or you should get a lawyer from somewhere other then a bus bench
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Offline Rick53

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 08:53:52 AM »
As long as we're slightly off the rails......I put a red dot (Dagger Defense) on one of my AR's and all I can say is WOW.  My 52 year old eyes have really slid lately and the dot it fantastic.

I LOVE iron sights but am having more trouble picking them lately.  I still have a decent set of flip up irons on that gun but for me, the dot acquisition is really good.

I have been getting a lot of practice with the rifles lately though.  I have a cheaper red dot on my 10/22 for shooting skunks in low light.  It made all the difference.

Sorry to not add to your original question but there's my two cents.

Yeah I love seeing people drop red dots and all that on any one of their long guns and then follow up by saying !@## like why would you put one on a pistol. 

Again my 2 favor. arguments from people would be 1) learn to shoot with your irons. Which I already know how to do so, but why not give myself an advantage I can ie red dot

Or 2) I would never put a red dot on my carry gun, you would get crucified in court if you ever had to use it for self defense
Response: hahahahhahaha ok, 1) if you are in court over a defensive shoot one of two things happened, it was a questionable shoot or a gunhoe DA.  And if during that court process the only thing the DA can bring to the table is you have a red dot, well then your lawyer should have you home that day or you should get a lawyer from somewhere other then a bus bench
  CZC does mill for a sight in the rear: But on the 07 09 series it has to go in front:

Offline Edward_Teach

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 09:00:51 AM »

 CZC does mill for a sight in the rear: But on the 07 09 series it has to go in front:

I saw that,  but I have seen what looks like the other very very few places some can do a traditional sight behind the rmr, so wasn't sure if anyone had any experience with one or the other or more than one company
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Offline s0nspark

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 10:41:11 AM »
CZC does mill for a sight in the rear: But on the 07 09 series it has to go in front:

Ah, cool... not my preference as to placement but nice to know they offer that now.
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 03:33:20 PM »
There are some companies who mill the slide so the RMR is between the ejection port and the rear sight.  I've seen pictures of them on this forum, or on others.

Mine were done by Primary Machine.  Both work great, look great and the P07, my EDC gun only started showing some holster wear a month or so ago.  It sometimes goes in/out of the holster 2 or 3 times a day (kydex and leather holster).  They machine the slide so the back up rear sight is between the RMR and the ejection port.  Not an issue for me.  My mind "ignores" the rear sight unless I want to use the iron sights.  I also believe the back up rear sight tends to afford the RMR some protection from any gas expelled during the ejection process and from possible strikers from empties if they were to bounce to the rear.

I'm very happy with mine.

If you have problems finding someone to set the slide up with the rear sight behind the RMR, consider a DP Pro dot sight.  You can buy the optional back up iron sight that mounts to the rear of the DP Pro.  That's how my wife's CZ 75 Compact is set up.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline Winkel

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Re: RMR question, who to go with
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2017, 09:01:09 PM »
As long as we're slightly off the rails......I put a red dot (Dagger Defense) on one of my AR's and all I can say is WOW.  My 52 year old eyes have really slid lately and the dot it fantastic.

I LOVE iron sights but am having more trouble picking them lately.  I still have a decent set of flip up irons on that gun but for me, the dot acquisition is really good.

I have been getting a lot of practice with the rifles lately though.  I have a cheaper red dot on my 10/22 for shooting skunks in low light.  It made all the difference.

Sorry to not add to your original question but there's my two cents.

Yeah I love seeing people drop red dots and all that on any one of their long guns and then follow up by saying !@## like why would you put one on a pistol. 

Again my 2 favor. arguments from people would be 1) learn to shoot with your irons. Which I already know how to do so, but why not give myself an advantage I can ie red dot

Or 2) I would never put a red dot on my carry gun, you would get crucified in court if you ever had to use it for self defense
Response: hahahahhahaha ok, 1) if you are in court over a defensive shoot one of two things happened, it was a questionable shoot or a gunhoe DA.  And if during that court process the only thing the DA can bring to the table is you have a red dot, well then your lawyer should have you home that day or you should get a lawyer from somewhere other then a bus bench
I really wanted to put a Vortex Venom on my P-09 this year but my youngest daughter is having some medical issues that are costing a small fortune.  It's OK, I'd step in front of a moving freight train if I thought it would help her. 

Maybe next year.....

 

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