Handgun self defense loads - powder questions/concerns

[nicky]

If the DA wanted to get you bad enough and go to the trouble and expense of the taxpayers money there are ways to determine that a shooter in self defense used reloads.

I think that whatever you decide to use, it better be a good shoot or you are going to be in it neck deep.

[IDescribe]

The DA doesn?t get to decide what the law is.  So unless there?s a law that says using reloads for defense = murder, then it doesn?t equal murder. 

[Cbass]

The DA doesn?t get to decide what the law is.  So unless there?s a law that says using reloads for defense = murder, then it doesn?t equal murder.

The DA may not pursue it but that doesn't mean a bottom feeder wouldn't try to use it against you in a civil case.

[nicky]

There is a saying " If it ain't in writing, it ain't so".

[IDescribe]

I don?t like the ?provide me a link; cite your sources? argument that so many people like to make on the internet, so I?ll apologize in advance. 

Please cite a source. 

Please someone provide one case where a shooting that was otherwise legal was made illegal by hand-loaded ammunition.  One case where a lawsuit was successful BECAUSE of reloaded ammo. 

It shouldn?t be a problem.  Warnings about using hand loaded ammo and custom guns are plentiful on the internet. Such warnings have been given by Gun writers and industry experts like Masood Ayoob.   Certainly these professional experts have cited a court case or two. Right?  It should be easy to find.  Except that it?s not.  Because the ?experts? whose opinions on the matter are the ones getting regurgiatattd in these discussions don?t have examples.  It?s gun store gossip and internet lore. 

[1SOW]

It shouldn?t be a problem.  Warnings about using hand loaded ammo and custom guns are plentiful on the internet. Such warnings have been given by Gun writers and industry experts like Masood Ayoob.   Certainly these professional experts have cited a court case or two. Right?  It should be easy to find.  Except that it?s not.  Because the ?experts? whose opinions on the matter are the ones getting regurgiatattd in these discussions don?t have examples.  It?s gun store gossip and internet lore. 

^^^^:  A long time back, my TX Carry gun license class instructor (a range friend),  said virtually the same thing  ID's post above says in his class. None  cited.
My primary interests are in Texas.  Many of the larger TX cities and there press are NOT conservative and would like to publicize cases like cited above. I've never once read or heard about anything to do with reloading from a Texas news source.  None cited.  [ As an aside: I have read of a case where a home or business was "Booby-Trapped" for burglars and that did lead to legal issues enjoyed by the press.]
  The NRA hardcover/digital magazines haven't mentioned one case for the many years I've received them.  They are fast to take credit for helping gun owners with cases like cited above. None cited.
  I don't doubt it "could happen" in one of the totally anti-gun states with insane laws, maybe by a lawyer planning to run for public office;  but none cited.
 


 

[Moken]

1SOW, dead center bulls-eye. A lot of this stuff depends on state and area of the state. There have been cases around here where not much was said or done after defensive gun use.
In one area case a lady shot a bg in her home and one of my sheriff buddies said they didn't even keep her gun. Told her to come down to the station when ever she could.
I have several cops/sheriff/hiway patrol customers and friend that know I carry home rolled loads and don't bat an eye.

[joedirt199]

I have responded to most of these threads I find because the internet lawyers drive me nuts. Unless you straight up mention that you use reloads for defense or use mixed brass where someone is going to ask why so many different brands of ammo at one crime scene, then no one will notice. I have 15 years of law enforcement experience in a large county and we have had our fair share of gun related violence. I spoke with our evidence techs and there is very little done in the way of testing to compare rounds used in a murder as to whether they were store bought or not. They do not go to your house and search for the rest of the box of ammo. Whatever the headstamp shows on the brass that is the brand they mark on the evidence sheet. Bullets get too mangled up to compare when they hit hard surfaces so ejection marks are more commonly used.

Mossad ayoob sites a case where a couple fought over a gun and she was shot. Husband admits to there being three different kinds of reloads all of differing powers. Some crap about gun shot residue is brought up, which are terribly inaccurate tests in and among themselves. Husband loses because his story is shady and reloads really aren't the main issue but since they get brought up, that is the only real focus for these type of debates.

If all these interent lawyers say you loaded your own ammo to make it more deadly then why aren't ammo companies sued more often for making self defense ammo more destructive? I have a folder with my test targets to show that my reloads are more accurate with all the factors I figure when I reload. That way when the defense attourny tries to bring it up I can say I made my rounds more accurate so your defendant would be the only one taking rounds and not an innocent bystander, if they even find out I reload.

[1SOW]

joedirt199,
I load my SD ammo with once fired Nickel cases with the same headstamp as the bullets' manufacturer.   With nothing else said/asked,  my cartridges match Hornady's and Speer's  cartridges.  They also match the two manufacturers' bullet speeds.
Sort of a belt and suspenders approach to avoid questions. 
 

[joedirt199]

That is exactly how you do it if you want to make your own SD loads. Another argument for the internet lawyers is when rolling your own, you can tailor the round to your gun and practice more with it because the round is cheaper to shoot. 

People think prosecutors are like they are on tv. I am here to tell you they are not. They don't take the hard case for a challenge, they take the easy case for a quick win. The only thing I see reloads being brought up would be in a wrongful death civil case where dirtbag's family that didn't care about drug dealing, theiving turd, now cares when someone takes him/her away early and they stand to get money from the deal. Civil attornies work for their money and look for any dirt they can.

[Wobbly]

My take on all this legal angle is this...

I'm only going to use factory rounds to begin with. Speer spent a lot of time developing special +P rounds for the snub nose 38 I carry. There's no way I'm going to duplicate all their laboratory work in my shop no matter how hard I try. They may be blending powders or using special edition bullets or magnum primers or any combination of the above.... there's simply no telling.

While I'll practice all day with rounds that mimic the Speer police rounds, at the end of the day... by gosh I think my life and those of my loved ones are worth $1 per round. It's the cheapest $5 worth of insurance I ever purchased.

 

[MadDuner]

I have factory loaded, +P Defensive rounds that I put in my carry guns.
It's the same stuff the local LEOs run in their weapons.
Then I have my own reloads that I practice with.
I'm not mixing the two.

I'm also not going to give anybody else any advice or grief about their choices either.

[Moken]

Like I said previously a lot of it depends on your location.
I like Ayoob but, he has an ax to grind.
My biggest defense these days is location. I won't put my self in jepordy by going to politically liberal areas. I live in Missouri, but you wont ever see me in St Louis or Jackson counties. Highest crime area and the local governments don't like guns.