P-01 Omega Safety Concern?

[supergunner84]

This thread has been open for nearly 3 months and CZ has known about the issue for just as long. It is safe to say that they will not be doing anything more, such as a recall.  I cannot recommend anyone use this pistol for ccw, it hasn't been properly vetted by the manufacturer.

Cheerio,
SG

[M1A4ME]

Maybe the title for this thread should be "decocker" concern as the safeties seem to work just fine.  It's only the decocker levers that seem to come loose.

I don't carry my UG P01 (have a few times but it's not a routine thing) but it is my recliner pistol and it's what I always grab to go to the door if someone rings/knocks.

You are right about the thread going on and on and no external communication from CZ about an investigation, a fix, a recall, etc.  Makes me wonder.

Do they sell the Omega series in Europe? If so, I wonder if those folks are having similar issues?

[supergunner84]

Maybe the title for this thread should be "decocker" concern as the safeties seem to work just fine.  It's only the decocker levers that seem to come loose.

I don't carry my UG P01 (have a few times but it's not a routine thing) but it is my recliner pistol and it's what I always grab to go to the door if someone rings/knocks.

You are right about the thread going on and on and no external communication from CZ about an investigation, a fix, a recall, etc.  Makes me wonder.

Do they sell the Omega series in Europe? If so, I wonder if those folks are having similar issues?

If you watch the decocker fix video I posted, the safties will drop completely from the firearm. It is an issue for all configurations of omegas.

SG

[Lawikfors]

https://imgur.com/GonaErN Looks like a P07 spring to me. Finally got my gun back today and the decocker doesnt come out when I push on the extractor. Good start! The CZ 75 D doesnt have any issues right? I still want to use this gun for EDC [emoji53]

75d is a good choice, no issues I'm aware of. I would look at the pcr

With the new spring do you feel it fixes the reliability enough for EDC? And to use the your method to create more surface tension wouldn't that make it even better?

The p07/09 spring rubs on the trigger bar. To me this gun has too many short comings to be an edc. Unfortunately...  Will it work with the spring and dimples, yes. It should work 100%. I have other options that I carry that I have full confidence in. To me, the fact that this happened lends me to wonder what else did CZ miss with the gun.

SG

That?s messed up . I could understand if they used a different guns part and then adjusted it to not rub on anything . That?s jerry rigging right there . Im probably going to just use the safety..


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You will want to dimple. If not, I'm betting the safties will drop free if the ejector is pressed.

SG

That?s the point of fixing the ejector from being pushed down


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[rkubatk21]

I've emailed CZ twice about an explanation for a P07 spring being installed and about it rubbing against the trigger bar is a bit concerning, no reply's.

[supergunner84]

https://imgur.com/GonaErN Looks like a P07 spring to me. Finally got my gun back today and the decocker doesnt come out when I push on the extractor. Good start! The CZ 75 D doesnt have any issues right? I still want to use this gun for EDC [emoji53]

75d is a good choice, no issues I'm aware of. I would look at the pcr

With the new spring do you feel it fixes the reliability enough for EDC? And to use the your method to create more surface tension wouldn't that make it even better?

The p07/09 spring rubs on the trigger bar. To me this gun has too many short comings to be an edc. Unfortunately...  Will it work with the spring and dimples, yes. It should work 100%. I have other options that I carry that I have full confidence in. To me, the fact that this happened lends me to wonder what else did CZ miss with the gun.

SG

That?s messed up . I could understand if they used a different guns part and then adjusted it to not rub on anything . That?s jerry rigging right there . Im probably going to just use the safety..


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You will want to dimple. If not, I'm betting the safties will drop free if the ejector is pressed.

SG

That?s the point of fixing the ejector from being pushed down


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All,

I want to be plainly clear: This is an issue for all configurations of the P-01 Omega built in 2017 (thus far).  The decocker lever walks on the guns due to the decocker spring putting a load on them.  When the safeties are installed, if the ejector gets pressed down with the slide back, the safeties can/will drop out of the firearm.

CZ hasn't come up with a solution that I believe is acceptable (using the P-07/09 decocker spring) as it doesn't address the issue of the safeties dropping free.

Several of us have come up with options to fix this, such as dimpling the levers to create a positive engagement or somehow locking the ejector in place.

The CZ P-01 Omega delivered from the factory can/will suffer from the walking decocker/safety falling out. 

A lot of this is repetitive info, but just wanted to make it clear to those not keeping up with every post.

Cheers,
SG

[M1A4ME]

Darn, forgot to grab the P01 box from the garage.  Got into a mess of getting the hood open on that darn diesel PU and then fighting those big old heavy batteries out of that thing an into the other truck to take to the store.  $300 plus for two batteries (big ones - but gee whiz).  The bright side is I paid with paypal so the core charge refund can be used for other stuff - like that new olight I just bought, or bullets from Missouri Bullet Co.

I'll try to remember again when I get back from Advance Auto Parts.

[MatthewD]

If CZ won?t and has not properly addressed this issue, maybe a third party like Cajun Gun Works will. Has anyone contacted Cajon Gun Works to see if the will look into it and provide an engineering solution. This situation is very disappointing. I have had a CZ P01 compact on order from Hyatt Gun Store in NC since the last week in August. This would have been my first CZ and it was going to be a EDC weapon. I don?t even have the gun yet and I don?t trust it because of this issue. I?m about a couple weeks from calling Hyatt to see if I can use my deposit towards a SIG P320 carry model. 

[s0nspark]

It still really bothers me what on my first gun they could not fix for them to replace it, I mean really what piece was so damaged or broken that a whole new gun was needed to to be sent to me. The gun ran fine other then the decocker issue. Did they not know how to fix it correctly?

You are looking at this totally wrong. They didn't replace yours because they couldn't fix it - they did so because it seemed most expedient.

[s0nspark]

This thread has been open for nearly 3 months and CZ has known about the issue for just as long. It is safe to say that they will not be doing anything more, such as a recall.  I cannot recommend anyone use this pistol for ccw, it hasn't been properly vetted by the manufacturer.

No, I doubt they would do a recall over an out of spec spring. Like most manufacturers these days, CZ tends to fix things in process and via warranty repairs.

Before you let that bother you, though, perhaps you should compare to other companies. Sig's recent drop safe issue was known internally (for some time, apparently) and I believe the public recall only came about due to the internet exploding with bad press. Glock is notorious for blaming malfunctions on everything except the gun and they have a long history of quietly replacing parts in production to fix issues without a peep to the public. They have also had "teething" issues with every new generation they have put out.

Also, just to speak to your point about recommending this (or any) gun for carry... who in their right mind would trust any gun for carry without vetting their particular one with several hundred rounds downrange first? Reputation and recommendations don't make your particular pistol trustworthy! I don't carry a particular gun unless I have put 400+ rounds through it without any kind of issue.

Guns are mechanical animals and, as such, can suffer issues as a result of tolerance stacking and/or out of spec parts. A smart person will find a gun for carry that they know can trust because they have verified its function. For me P-07s fit the bill. Not just any P-07s, though... my particular P-07s ;-)

[M1A4ME]

Okay, got the UG P01 box from the garage and went ahead and installed the decocker levers and spring (spring wasn't to bad once I think I had it figured out).

Now, for the figures out question.

When the pistol is cocked can everyone move their decocker levers up/down with no resistance till it either reaches the end of travel at the top or it reached the point that it's about to drop the hammer to half cock notch?

I took mine out within minutes of getting home with it and don't remember how it was, so I'm wondering if all of them have that sloppy spot with no tension/pressure on them or if I got something in wrong.

It works.  I mean if it's at full cock and I push the decocker lever down the hammer drops to half cock.  then, if I pull the trigger the hammer moves to the rear and the decocker levers raise to full top position as the hammer moves rearward and then the hammer will fall.  I'm just curious about that movement of the decocker levers when it's at half cock.

Thanks.  About to pull it apart and do some measuring of parts (2016 Omega P01 parts).

Edited to add - even though the decocker lever moves to the full top position, it still has some sloppy up/down movement if you push on it.

I just don't know if that's "normal."

[s0nspark]

If CZ won?t and has not properly addressed this issue, maybe a third party like Cajun Gun Works will. Has anyone contacted Cajon Gun Works to see if the will look into it and provide an engineering solution. This situation is very disappointing. I have had a CZ P01 compact on order from Hyatt Gun Store in NC since the last week in August. This would have been my first CZ and it was going to be a EDC weapon. I don?t even have the gun yet and I don?t trust it because of this issue. I?m about a couple weeks from calling Hyatt to see if I can use my deposit towards a SIG P320 carry model. 

This doesn't require re-engineering anything. CZ said it was a spring issue which translates to an out of spec part issue since this isn't a new design. CZ-USA is apparently using P-07 springs to address the issue in the meantime... but I'm sure that is a temporary fix until they sort out and source proper parts.

FWIW something much like this happened once before, years ago, with trigger return springs... It will get fixed.

Also, we should probably talk privately about Hyatts... ;-)

[supergunner84]

If CZ won?t and has not properly addressed this issue, maybe a third party like Cajun Gun Works will. Has anyone contacted Cajon Gun Works to see if the will look into it and provide an engineering solution. This situation is very disappointing. I have had a CZ P01 compact on order from Hyatt Gun Store in NC since the last week in August. This would have been my first CZ and it was going to be a EDC weapon. I don?t even have the gun yet and I don?t trust it because of this issue. I?m about a couple weeks from calling Hyatt to see if I can use my deposit towards a SIG P320 carry model. 

This doesn't require re-engineering anything. CZ said it was a spring issue which translates to an out of spec part issue since this isn't a new design. CZ-USA is apparently using P-07 springs to address the issue in the meantime... but I'm sure that is a temporary fix until they sort out and source proper parts.

FWIW something much like this happened once before, years ago, with trigger return springs... It will get fixed.

Also, we should probably talk privately about Hyatts... ;-)

I have sent my pistol back 2 times to CZ and it still had the issue. This is a design fault, not a piece part issue. I have made several videos regarding this.

Regarding the 320, yes there was an issue, sig took ownership of it, and had mine fixed with the modification within 2 days of sending it to them.

All companies have issues, but with a thread with 12 pages and over 6500 views, it is very apparent there is something else other than a spring issue.

Respectfully,
SG

[M1A4ME]

Well, for what it's worth:

1.  the spring that puts upward pressure on the ejector has between 10 and 11 coils in it and is 0.306" long (after being in the gun almost 2 years)

    That's the spring that should be keeping the ejector in position when it strikes the base of an empty moving rearward with the slide

2.  The notch in the left side decocker shaft that the ejector rests in is 0.062" wide (what a pain it was playing with that set of feeler gauges till I got the right combination of blades - then I added up the numbers plus used the calipers.)

3.  The ejector, where it fits up into that notch in the decocker shaft it 0.058" wide/thick.  If I pushed on either the ejector, or the left side decocker shaft I'd get a little bit of movement side to side, so it's not a snug bit on mine (I guess that's okay, just mentioning it.)

4.  The left side decocker lever shaft diameter, right next to the cut the notch the ejector fits into is 0.1970"

5.  The diameter of the left side decocker shaft in the notch for the ejector is 0.1740",   Looks like the notch is 0.0230" deep

And I'm curious what the coil spring/decocker spring would be doing to push the left side decocker out of the frame?  If the dimensions of the ejector, left side decocker shaft are good and the spring that puts upward pressure on ejector are good, how does the left side shaft move "out" of the frame.

And, if it happens with the safeties, too?  How has an out of spec. decocker spring have anything to do with that?  Since it's not in the frame when you're running the safeties?

I'm still curious.

[Lawikfors]

Well, for what it's worth:

1.  the spring that puts upward pressure on the ejector has between 10 and 11 coils in it and is 0.306" long (after being in the gun almost 2 years)

    That's the spring that should be keeping the ejector in position when it strikes the base of an empty moving rearward with the slide

2.  The notch in the left side decocker shaft that the ejector rests in is 0.062" wide (what a pain it was playing with that set of feeler gauges till I got the right combination of blades - then I added up the numbers plus used the calipers.)

3.  The ejector, where it fits up into that notch in the decocker shaft it 0.058" wide/thick.  If I pushed on either the ejector, or the left side decocker shaft I'd get a little bit of movement side to side, so it's not a snug bit on mine (I guess that's okay, just mentioning it.)

4.  The left side decocker lever shaft diameter, right next to the cut the notch the ejector fits into is 0.1970"

5.  The diameter of the left side decocker shaft in the notch for the ejector is 0.1740",   Looks like the notch is 0.0230" deep

And I'm curious what the coil spring/decocker spring would be doing to push the left side decocker out of the frame?  If the dimensions of the ejector, left side decocker shaft are good and the spring that puts upward pressure on ejector are good, how does the left side shaft move "out" of the frame.

And, if it happens with the safeties, too?  How has an out of spec. decocker spring have anything to do with that?  Since it's not in the frame when you're running the safeties?

I'm still curious.

Was there any depth difference between the ejector notches in the safety bar vs decocker bar ?


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