RDS W/O BUIS ??

[DOC 1500]

Good stuff thanks for that.

[Yoni]

I have a P07 at Cajun, that is getting an action job and milled for a RMR.

It is a suppressor ready gun, the front sight is good to go. I am not having a rear sight put on the pistol.

The P07 points so natural for me that I don't think I need a rear sight. If the RMR goes out at the range, big deal. If the RMR goes out in a real life situation, big deal. I used to get paid to send a lot of rounds down range, I can easily get the hits I need even without sights. I have RMR on my pistols so I can shoot them accurately at 25 meters and longer.

It is an ego thing for me that I can't see the sights well enough to still shoot little groups at 25 meters. I carried a Glock 19 with XS Big Dots for my carry gun and never felt I was at a lesser security level at normal pistol defense ranges.

I like the RMR because it let's me shoot at longer distance.

[Edward_Teach]

Edward , is it true that when you look through the RDS window whatever the dot Is touching is where the bullet goes. Plus I think mine being a 6 MOA going to be a lot easier to see.

Yes that is true but the dot needs to be in the window for that to work

[Edward_Teach]

Also I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to keep you from putting a RDS on your handgun, that's actually the opposite if what I ever do, but if you are going to do it hopefully you do it correctly instead of cutting corners and then not getting the full red dot experience, next thing you know you hate the red dot and it just sits

[DOC 1500]

I believe I'm going with the vortex Viper and having primary machines do the milling and installation.

[DOC 1500]

Well I bought the vortex Viper as soon as it gets here sending it all off the primary machines for the slide Milling and installation.

[s0nspark]

Well I bought the vortex Viper as soon as it gets here sending it all off the primary machines for the slide Milling and installation.

Cool! Be sure to post pics when you get her back :-)

[DOC 1500]

I got to find another site to host pictures so I can do that. I had Photobucket and got rid of it.
Oh also going to have the slide done in cerekote titanium. I think that'll be a nice contrast with the black frame.

[s0nspark]

I got to find another site to host pictures so I can do that. I had Photobucket and got rid of it.
Oh also going to have the slide done in cerekote titanium. I think that'll be a nice contrast with the black frame.

I?ve switched to using imgbox.com ... not as snazzy as photobucket but then again not jerks either ;-)

[Raining_Brass]

I have always used imgur.

[s0nspark]

I have always used imgur.

I hope they don?t catch you. ;-)

Their TOS forbids hotlinking from other sites.

[Nimdabew]

Use the viper, mill a glock dovetail in front of the sight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrrlxEwUaRM&t=832s

At least there, he gives a reason why he uses his rear in front of the optic.

[texasmojo]

Great video!!

Makes very good points about the red dot being the primary optic and the iron sights there as backups. Not to be confused with co-witnessing.
That's the thing about red dots that 90% of people are hung up on the mentality that red dots MUST co-witness with the iron sights. But I guess on a gun we don't have that option since sights don't fold down. It makes sense even though (I don't like how it looks) to mill the rear sight in front of the red dot optic that way you focus on the dot first. Also if you mill the sight behind the red dot you will obstruct the entire lower view of the glass right under the actual red dot leaving a feeling like if the dot is barely visible over the rear sight itself. Like the video says then it's pretty much pointless and just use your front sight.

 Apples to oranges, On my AR15 I have my iron sights flipped down and only use the red dot and it works awesome. But it's a lot easier when you have a natural cheek weld and the red dot window is 8 inches away from your eye. No fishing for the dot.

On a pistol the red dot window is so much smaller and your entire arm length away while trying to get proper wrist angel.

[Yoni]

I started with a Dr. Optic back in 2001, after seeing it in some Swiss or German gun magazine. I ran it with no BUIS. I started seeing videos of Kelly McCann running a Dr. on his Glock 19 with no BUIS, we both carried that way for years.

The race guns in IPSC carry red dots and no BUIS.

The BUIS make the learning curve much easier for most people.

I am having a P07 done by Cajun, it will wear it's stock front suppressor sight and a RMR with no rear sight.

If by chance the RMR goes out, so what. If I am in a string of fire at my Thursday night combat match RMR becomes big ghost ring and I finish the string. If it should go out in a real life situation, same as above.

Remember that the basic rule for a gun fight in the USA really haven't changed 3 shots, 3 yards, 3 seconds.

In Israel I have used a pistol both on and off duty and some of those were outside the rule of 3's as outlined above. But as of right now I still feel in the USA your chance of a gun fight is very very low and your chance of having to make a 25 meter or longer shot is even more dramatically lower.

[Edward_Teach]

Great video!!

Makes very good points about the red dot being the primary optic and the iron sights there as backups. Not to be confused with co-witnessing.
That's the thing about red dots that 90% of people are hung up on the mentality that red dots MUST co-witness with the iron sights. But I guess on a gun we don't have that option since sights don't fold down. It makes sense even though (I don't like how it looks) to mill the rear sight in front of the red dot optic that way you focus on the dot first. Also if you mill the sight behind the red dot you will obstruct the entire lower view of the glass right under the actual red dot leaving a feeling like if the dot is barely visible over the rear sight itself. Like the video says then it's pretty much pointless and just use your front sight.

 Apples to oranges, On my AR15 I have my iron sights flipped down and only use the red dot and it works awesome. But it's a lot easier when you have a natural cheek weld and the red dot window is 8 inches away from your eye. No fishing for the dot.

On a pistol the red dot window is so much smaller and your entire arm length away while trying to get proper wrist angel.

It's funny how another big name in the industry, and major proponent of RDS on a handgun (not saying names, but just so happened to have been beefing with Aaron Cowan on fb a few days ago)  will bleep near straight up tell you irons forward are junk and waste of money and is the wrong way no matter what .

Yes he does have 100000% more experience and knowledge than me in all things firearms pretty much. But the main arguments he makes are essentially the opposite stated in the previous post and video.  1 he states you shorten the sight radius. Ok well They are back up sights and are generally about the same distance as say a g26 sight radius so not much of a negative there,  but yes the irons do help a whole lot finding the dot but you don't need a g17L sight radius.

2nd he will tell you the opposite about the sights and window l, saying the irons forward block out most of the window, and while I have never irl used irons rear I can't see how either one covers more or less