SAR vs Canik quality?

[PPS1980]

EAA had tons of complaints about lack of parts, slow service, high prices, etc., etc., etc.  I think SAR values their reputation as a military arms provider too highly to put up with that behavior for too long.  I'm hopeful that now that they have their own US branch they will be more readily available and support and parts will be more reasonable and accessible.  My K2-45 is an all around excellent weapon with fit & finish that is top notch and accuracy out of the box that many other makers would envy IMHO.  Soft shooting, very nice trigger, and 14 rounds in a solid frame.  Great first impression from SAR for me.

[MI-CZ]

FWIW my Canik L-120 has been absolutely rock solid through thousands of rounds, as well as quite accurate. I have never been able to get my K2P dialed in and have basically given up on it.


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[rabble_rouser]

If it makes you feel any better, a reminder that outside of the US the designation for the K2P is CM9 (Combat Master 9). It's a combat pistol and was never meant to deliver target performance.

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[briang2ad]

I would say compare the plastic.  Look at a Canik poly gun and a SAR like the CM 9 Gen 2.  Just watched a Mrgunsngear vid where he shows a half circle gouge from letting his pistol hit a 9mm  brass case.  WOW.  Don't think this would happen with a CZ P07/09 - or maybe a TP9/Canik.  I seriously doubt that SAR is using a proper glass filled polymer, like other manufacturers.  Feel the front end.  As I've pointed out before, the front end is soft and flexible - it has a TON of give when you squeeze it.  No other polymer gun made does this. 

Can it be a good/decent car gun? - sure.  But it doesn't compare in quality build to a CZ.  Not trashing the gun (which has a VERY smooth DA pull OTB that shames CZ) - just pointing out what most reviewers miss.

[rabble_rouser]

I would say compare the plastic.  Look at a Canik poly gun and a SAR like the CM 9 Gen 2.  Just watched a Mrgunsngear vid where he shows a half circle gouge from letting his pistol hit a 9mm  brass case.  WOW.  Don't think this would happen with a CZ P07/09 - or maybe a TP9/Canik.  I seriously doubt that SAR is using a proper glass filled polymer, like other manufacturers.  Feel the front end.  As I've pointed out before, the front end is soft and flexible - it has a TON of give when you squeeze it.  No other polymer gun made does this. 

Can it be a good/decent car gun? - sure.  But it doesn't compare in quality build to a CZ.  Not trashing the gun (which has a VERY smooth DA pull OTB that shames CZ) - just pointing out what most reviewers miss.

As long as the thin, flexible polymer has memory and returns to its' original form that is EXACTLY what you want. Thin, rigid polymer = brittle & more prone to breakage.

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[MadDuner]

I like metal.....

I have lots of polymer in my arsenal, but I like metal best.

[briang2ad]

As long as the thin, flexible polymer has memory and returns to its' original form that is EXACTLY what you want. Thin, rigid polymer = brittle & more prone to breakage.

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Glass reinforced polymer is the industry standard for a reason. Compare the CM9 Gen 2 to CZ P07, P10C, Glock, S&W, SIG, Steyr, SA XD, HK, etc. etc.  They are ALL quite solid, not brittle, etc.  And they are that way for a reason.  There is something wrong with a pistol that flexes that much and brass cuts into it being dropped onto it. 

Again, you may get plenty of use out of it as a plinker - fine.  I just don't trust the frame.

[DF_Hammack]

After a couple thousand rounds, I have no issue with my B6P, and wouldn't hesitate to carry it, and in fact, have. How about that Glock that got cut in half when it got caught in the cop's seat? Polymer is what it is - plastic. As long as you don't try to treat it like steel, you're OK. I too, prefer an "all metal gun" for carry, but I don't trust aluminum alloy. I would carry a "plastic gun" first. That's my opinion... it works for me. Yours may be different, for different reasons. That's why my EDC is ALL STEEL. That's my choice, and it too works for ME, your mileage may vary. Ultimately YOU are the one responsible for YOUR choices.  After learning as much as you can, choose what YOU feel is best for your circumstances and likeliest situations.

[WiskyT]

As long as the thin, flexible polymer has memory and returns to its' original form that is EXACTLY what you want. Thin, rigid polymer = brittle & more prone to breakage.

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Glass reinforced polymer is the industry standard for a reason. Compare the CM9 Gen 2 to CZ P07, P10C, Glock, S&W, SIG, Steyr, SA XD, HK, etc. etc.

Glocks are the industry standard when it comes to polymer guns and they are not glass fiber reinforced. 

[Rcher]

After a couple thousand rounds, I have no issue with my B6P, and wouldn't hesitate to carry it, and in fact, have. How about that Glock that got cut in half when it got caught in the cop's seat? Polymer is what it is - plastic. As long as you don't try to treat it like steel, you're OK. I too, prefer an "all metal gun" for carry, but I don't trust aluminum alloy. I would carry a "plastic gun" first. That's my opinion... it works for me. Yours may be different, for different reasons. That's why my EDC is ALL STEEL. That's my choice, and it too works for ME, your mileage may vary. Ultimately YOU are the one responsible for YOUR choices.  After learning as much as you can, choose what YOU feel is best for your circumstances and likeliest situations.

I do prefer ALL STEEL too, but what's wrong with aluminum alloy? Beretta 92FS frame is aluminum alloy, but I never heard about any problems. It's not a carry gun for many people because of its size, but it has proof as the most reliable service/duty gun for last 30 years.

[MadDuner]

My aluminum P-85 Ruger has been my everyday carry gun for over 30 years....
Somewhere between 45k and 50k rounds in that time. 
It had FTE problems at 40K - that was an extractor spring, and that's it.
Shot it yesterday, cleaned it today.
Goes to work with me tomorrow.

[DF_Hammack]

I saw a study years ago, conducted by the military on frame material longevity. Steel frames had the highest longevity, polymer next and in last place was aluminum alloy. I don't remember the guns tested except that the steel frame was a 1911. Neither do I remember the exact round count, but steel frames were in the neighborhood of 500,000, polymer frames were around 300,000, and aluminum frames were less than 100,000. Now, I know that 100,000 rounds is a lot and almost no one will wear out an aluminum alloy frame, but there is another way of looking at  those figures... An alloy frame is 5 times more likely to break than a steel frame, and three times more likely to break than a polymer frame. Aluminum is strong, but also hard, therefore brittle. The most likely failure mode for aluminum is a cracked frame. So, since I can no longer find the source study, you can consider this apocryphal, but this is the basis of my reasoning.

[MadDuner]

I figured that if the P-85 ever did quit firing - I could use it for a hammer and build another house. 

[briang2ad]

As long as the thin, flexible polymer has memory and returns to its' original form that is EXACTLY what you want. Thin, rigid polymer = brittle & more prone to breakage.

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Glass reinforced polymer is the industry standard for a reason. Compare the CM9 Gen 2 to CZ P07, P10C, Glock, S&W, SIG, Steyr, SA XD, HK, etc. etc.

Glocks are the industry standard when it comes to polymer guns and they are not glass fiber reinforced.

Likely misleading.

1) Glock is quite secretive of their materials and process.  Most of their employees never see how parts are made. It seems that industry savvy people believe that they use either glass reinforced polymer OR glass reinforced nylon.

2) Pick up any Glock (or other plastic gun listed and more, and squeeze the end between your fingers.  Then do it to your CM 9 Gen 2.  The 'industry standard feels strong and rigid.  The CM9 feels like a cheap plastic toy. 

3)  Watch the explanation of MrGunsngear and how the OTHER part of the frame was dented easily by a brass casing. 

Thus, it makes me believe that the CM 9 has some inferior plastic being used.

[DF_Hammack]

.....

3)  Watch the explanation of MrGunsngear and how the OTHER part of the frame was dented easily by a brass casing. 

Thus, it makes me believe that the CM 9 has some inferior plastic being used.

After reading your comments, I went and watched the video. I am amazed that in an overall, very positive review of this gun your takeaway was a single incident where the reviewer admitted the problem was his own "gun abuse"... my takeaway was don't do dumb stuff.

 MrGunsngear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONroTRiyN00