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[SlvrDragon50]

Euhhh. I don't see the mainspring weight having any major effect on slide velocity. That slide is traveling so fast with so much energy.

I don't think there's anything wrong with my P07. You have to remember that I'm coming from FPBless CZs so I don't really have anything to compare it to, only ridiculously nice triggers.

[briang2ad]

I only offered the 'physics' explanation because some readers seemed confused or in denial.  Its common sense - the mainspring affects slide velocity just like the recoil spring does.  That is why SOME shooters put in heavier recoil springs to compensate when they change out mainsprings.  I never claimed it would hurt the gun of most shooters, and as I pointed out, gamers don't care - they are going for max shoot-ability, and have sponsors, etc. - heck - the cost of ammo alone is more than a regular shooter could stand.

And, I ask you why the hammer spring and its effect is fundamentally different than the recoil spring? (Speed does not cancel out the laws of physics). Both have a real effect on slide velocity.  Cock the hammer on a Browning HP - it takes much force.   I can tell you the difference.  The hammer spring is compressed by the slide through a fulcrum - lever arm.  When you cock it by hand - you apply force at the max fulcum - the top of the hammer.  But when the slide hits it on recoil, it hits it at a much lower point, requiring a greater force - this force (supplied by the hammer spring) indeed affects slide velocity.  More force means less slide velocity. 

Going from 20 to 13 LBS is a BIG difference in the mainspring.  Yes, the DA pull is much less, but the slide velocity is much greater.

One thing though.  The P07 series is different and the SS doesn't perform the same function - which MAY make the gun more durable - but that is another thread.

Back to the OP.  A  CZ should not exhibit that description of your problem, and first thing is to get it right.  In my case, CZ USA was a big help.   

[Earl Keese]

" A  CZ should not exhibit that description of your problem, and first thing is to get it right. "

What problem is he describing? Seems to me he's describing a typical production gun that he wants to tune because he's used to tuned actions. There are only a few hammer/recoil springs recommended for the P series pistols. It ain't rocket science.
 It'll never feel the same as a 75 because it isn't a 75. Shoot it like a defensive pistol and they work great.

[briang2ad]

SLVRDragon's problem description mimics what I experienced OTB with my P07.  EXTREMELY heavy gritty DA, etc. etc. I know that most P07s are not that bad OTB, and if mine persisted, I would have sold it off. (I almost did).  A trip to CZ fixed it.  Some parts were replaced.  Now the DA is much better - as it should be OTB.  Once again. tuning makes a good gun better for the user.  An unacceptable trigger isn't right, and the vendor should deal with it.

One the vendor makes it what it was supposed to be, then all manner of customization is in order to the customer's choosing.

Of course he can chime in, but IMHO, no CZ should have a trigger that bad OTB.  As I shared with CZUSA - its not about getting a trigger job - its about seeing what is out of spec.

[Raining_Brass]

SLVRDragon's problem description mimics what I experienced OTB with my P07.  EXTREMELY heavy gritty DA, etc. etc. I know that most P07s are not that bad OTB, and if mine persisted, I would have sold it off. (I almost did).  A trip to CZ fixed it.  Some parts were replaced.  Now the DA is much better - as it should be OTB.  Once again. tuning makes a good gun better for the user.  An unacceptable trigger isn't right, and the vendor should deal with it.

One the vendor makes it what it was supposed to be, then all manner of customization is in order to the customer's choosing.

Of course he can chime in, but IMHO, no CZ should have a trigger that bad OTB.  As I shared with CZUSA - its not about getting a trigger job - its about seeing what is out of spec.

What was your DA pull weight?

[briang2ad]

1.  I don't have a gauge.
2.  I own and have shot and handled scores of DA/SA guns and this thing made them all seem like tricked out APEX triggers. 
3.  There is not a gauge made that would have registered the pull - trust me.
4.  I have handled enough stock P07s and P09s OTB to know something was 'ate up' with my P07. 


And finally, CZ USA evidently agreed.

[Earl Keese]

SLVRDragon's problem description mimics what I experienced OTB with my P07.  EXTREMELY heavy gritty DA, etc. etc. I know that most P07s are not that bad OTB, and if mine persisted, I would have sold it off. (I almost did).  A trip to CZ fixed it.  Some parts were replaced.  Now the DA is much better - as it should be OTB.  Once again. tuning makes a good gun better for the user.  An unacceptable trigger isn't right, and the vendor should deal with it.

One the vendor makes it what it was supposed to be, then all manner of customization is in order to the customer's choosing.

Of course he can chime in, but IMHO, no CZ should have a trigger that bad OTB.  As I shared with CZUSA - its not about getting a trigger job - its about seeing what is out of spec.

From the original post:
"
However, I've been spoiled by my S2. For the most part, I am okay with the P07, but there are a couple of things I'd like to improve."
You see, he didn't describe a problem at all.
 You've made your dissatisfaction with your CZ known in pretty much every comment you made, in multiple threads. What Silverdragon describes is an average otb P-07 trigger.

[Raining_Brass]

Lol so basically you just proclaimed it was out of spec due to how it "felt".
Well I'm sure they agreed after you called them, sent the gun, etc. Make a big enough ordeal about something and anyone would try to fix it, regardless of if it's broke or not. Jeez, people don't give CZ USA enough credit if they're willing to go above and beyond because someone feels as though their trigger isn't good enough with zero fact to back it.

Bottom line is 10-12lbs is a very normal and in "spec" as you put it weight for these guns. They need REAL work done to them to make it better. Bottom line. Has nothing to do with anything being "wrong" with the gun. It's the nature if a $400 defense gun's DA. Due to tolerance stacking on a mass produced gun, some will obviously feel better than others. You seriously can't expect every one you ahndle to feel teh exact same.
In our shop we've seen bone stock DA pulls range all the way from an actually decently smooth 10+lbs to nearly 13 with terrible stacking.

[briang2ad]

I disagree.

In many threads I made it a point to praise CZ USA CS.  I've also made it plain that I've experienced other P07s and NONE felt like mine.  None.  I have folks here say that theirs was pretty smooth and light OTB.  I've seen countless P07 videos where the trigger is praised for smoothness and measured at 9 LBS OTB.  That is NOT heavy  That is not what he is describing. 

I even asked in a thread on this site what people experienced OTB with their DA triggers.  I got back examples of 9 LBS.

No sir, that was not my gun, and it sounds like SD has one that is not like that either.

[Raining_Brass]

I disagree.

In many threads I made it a point to praise CZ USA CS.  I've also made it plain that I've experienced other P07s and NONE felt like mine.  None.  I have folks here say that theirs was pretty smooth and light OTB.  I've seen countless P07 videos where the trigger is praised for smoothness and measured at 9 LBS OTB.  That is NOT heavy  That is not what he is describing. 

I even asked in a thread on this site what people experienced OTB with their DA triggers.  I got back examples of 9 LBS.

No sir, that was not my gun, and it sounds like SD has one that is not like that either.

I can tell you from handing dozens and dozens of P series guns that 9lbs is simply the exception, NOT the rule. BY AND FAR the NORMAL DA weight for these guns is 11+ lbs. I have NEVER, EVER seen a 9lb bone stock DA pull on ANY P-07/09 that's ever came through our shop.

[briang2ad]

Maybe all the gun reviewers are getting hand picked gems.  Do you check all the P series guns you sell OTB with a trigger gauge?  If you do, good on you.  That is the first person here that has this type of experience. 

Admittedly, I've only handled likely less than a dozen.  But the other 10 ALL had much better triggers than mine and SD's sounds as bad.

In general I'll admit that the P07 doesn't stack up to the 75 - period.

[s0nspark]

Again, changing out springs changes things all over.  Just keep it in mond when changing things out.

You?re overthinking this way, way too much. Even going from an OEM main to a 13lb main would have an extremely minor impact on slide velocity. Nothing even worth bringing up.

My thoughts as well... sure, there technically is a difference but if it doesn't affect reliability - something one should verify after any sort of changes or upgrades - then I am not concerned about it. What part will it wear more? Slide stop. Do I have extras on hand? Yes. No worries in my book. I don't run super light recoil springs anyway.

99% of shooters will never shoot the gun enough for that to even be an issue worth discussing.

... and there it is, Bruce. The statement to end almost every similar discussion on the entire Internet LOL Whole lot of truth packed into one sentence.

As for Brian concerns... he made a very good point about making sure the gun functioned properly before trying to solve problems with upgrades. He also raises valid concerns about knowing what you are upgrading and why... and what the potential problems and trade-offs may be.

Some see a well-functioning stock gun as the Holy Grail or something... I am one to try and tweak and tune things to my needs so stock rarely gets there I make a point not to really push boundaries of reliability and function, though. The thing I love about the CZ platform is that I can get where I want to be without risking much at all. When I shot Glocks that wasn't the case... mainly because I was wanting them to be fundamentally different, not just better. ;-)

[SlvrDragon50]

Just Cajun'd the gun.

1. Huge improvements in DA though the pull is a little heavier than I'd like still, sitting around 8-9 lbs. Can't get a reliable reading. That said, it feels waaaaay lighter so I imagine it was 12+ before.
2. The FPB reduced power spring makes a good difference too. It makes the pre-travel less stage-y and more consistent throughout the movement.
3. Replacing the hammer removed all SA creep as expected. It is at a good 3 lb SA.
4. I need to get a SS guide rod since I bought a lighter recoil spring without realizing the captive spring can't use it.
5. I also stoned the trigger bar and lowered the trigger bar spring (though not as much as the picture) per schmeky's guide.
6. Reset is also a lot more familiar now with the SRS. I don't feel this was necessary for a SD gun, but I was thinking of taking this P07 to carry optics for fun so I figured why not.

Overall, all my problems have been solved. I think the FPB is something I just need to get used to. There's zero grit now when I pull the trigger in DA, just heavy. I'll think of it as extra training for learning how to shoot DA on my S2

[s0nspark]

Just Cajun'd the gun.

1. Huge improvements in DA though the pull is a little heavier than I'd like still, sitting around 8-9 lbs. Can't get a reliable reading. That said, it feels waaaaay lighter so I imagine it was 12+ before.
2. The FPB reduced power spring makes a good difference too. It makes the pre-travel less stage-y and more consistent throughout the movement.
3. Replacing the hammer removed all SA creep as expected. It is at a good 3 lb SA.
4. I need to get a SS guide rod since I bought a lighter recoil spring without realizing the captive spring can't use it.
5. I also stoned the trigger bar and lowered the trigger bar spring (though not as much as the picture) per schmeky's guide.
6. Reset is also a lot more familiar now with the SRS. I don't feel this was necessary for a SD gun, but I was thinking of taking this P07 to carry optics for fun so I figured why not.

Overall, all my problems have been solved. I think the FPB is something I just need to get used to. There's zero grit now when I pull the trigger in DA, just heavy. I'll think of it as extra training for learning how to shoot DA on my S2

Awesome!

DA on mine ended up a tad heavier than I was hoping but I only notice when I am trying to make a really precise shot. Normal shooting is no prob. I am using a 15# HS though so that helped. :-)

[briang2ad]

SD:  Glad you are fixed no matter the process.  Let us know all the parts you used - sounds like you went the whole $225 way?  Yes, the hammer changes the hole deal in SA - felt a Cajun P09 in a local shop and yes it eliminates SA hammer hook camming (a feature of all standard CZs).  What hammer spring are you running?  (I assume you hev the extended FP).

I just put another 300 rounds through mine alongside my SP 2022.  Despite the SP having a much bettrer feeling trigger, I can hit the gong more easily even if i get sloppy (which I tend to do).  The short throw DA, good beavertail, decent sights, and frame width (getting your support hand all over the gun) really helps this thing sing.

My DA is now petty smooth and light enough to make it shoot VERY well. I MIGHT install my SR Kit sometime soon.  But right now, I'm satisfied the way she shoots.  its a natural.