Author Topic: .40 TS load recipes  (Read 834 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TC2415

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
.40 TS load recipes
« on: December 07, 2017, 11:15:36 AM »
Hi all,

I just got my Dillon 650XL setup.  Could anyone share a reliable load recipe w/OAL for .40 in a TS making major power factor?

Offline Wobbly

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8634
  • Loves the smell of VihtaVuori in the morning !
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 12:39:19 PM »
Welcome Aboard !!

Just so you know, on this forum we tend not to quote exact loads for the simple reason that every gun is different. Users here can guide you with load ranges, bullet weights for best accuracy, and powders for best performance (or to help make PF). We can also help you with your XL650 setup, reloading bench work, and various accessories (both Dillon and third party) you might find helpful.

Once you get your components, we can help you with your testing and load tuning. You'll probably need your own chrono. We can also make suggestions there.

First thing we'd like to know is how much reloading experience you have. And what led you to choose 40 cal.

Lastly I see you have 2 duplicate threads. I have deleted one. (Sorry.) You may wish to maintain alll these questions and answers in a single "blog" thread, such as Baldrage has done. Here: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=82725.0

All the best.   ;)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 12:43:39 PM by Wobbly »
In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
Mature reloaders ask: What did I do wrong ?

Offline TC2415

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2017, 01:02:46 AM »
Thank you for the reply.  I have some reloading experience, but only on a single stage press, loading for rifles.  I'm new to reloading for pistols.  I have my Dillon 650 XL ready to go.  I have a chrono. I shoot a Czechmate with a .40 upper from CZC for limited major in uspsa, and the Czechmate in 9mm major for open division.  I have Berry's, Bayou, Eggelston, and Precision bullets. I have WST and Silhouette for powders.  I understand CZ's prefer shorter oals, so I'm really just looking for a starting point to use prinary with WST.

Thanks
Tony

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3887
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2017, 08:01:53 AM »
My TS .40 won't chamber the hollow point loads that do fine in my P07 and P09 (but neither will my youngest son's Beretta 90-Two, so it's not just some CZ's).  It's just something you have to check on your pistol.  What I've started doing is loading all my .40's to fit the TS, they'll just be a little shorter in the P07/P09.

I can't tell you anything about major/minor.  I just like groups (smaller ones are better).  I really don't have much experience reloading for .40 S&W.  I lucked out on the very first load I tried for Nosler's 135 grain hollow points that I got from the Nosler web site.  I haven't tried any other powder with that bullet or any other jacketed hollow point to this point.

Same for the lead bullet loads.  I wanted something close to the Nosler hollow point in weight to try to mimic the POA/POI on paper for practice and got lucky again.  Got a load from the Alliant web site (I think it was Alliant - the powder used is Herco) and dog gone if I don't get exactly the same POI out to 12 - 15 yds. with the Missouri Bullet Co. 140 grain lead bullets (and the 140 coated lead bullets of the same style).  Good groups, too.

I've bought 180 grain lead bullets for the .40, 165 grain hollow points and some Titegroup powder and haven't even cracked the seal on the powder yet.  Been busy working on 9MM, .45 acp reloading and getting .223 and .308 brass ready to load.

I'll follow your thread though, just to see what you try and what other may suggest.

Good luck.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline Smitty79

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1153
  • So many guns, so little time
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2017, 08:14:36 AM »
I haven't run either of the powders you mention in 40.   As Wobbly says, different guns are different.    My Tac Sport eats 40 with a 1.135 (SAAMI Max) all day.
Don't mistake my high post count for knowledge or wisdom.   I just like hearing myself type.

Offline painter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5626
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2017, 08:25:07 AM »
Both Western Powder, and Hodgdon Reloading, have lots of data for those powders for both 9 and 40.

Check them out.

http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WesternLoadGuide1-2016_Web-1.pdf

www.hodgdonreloading.com/pistol
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.

Offline Wobbly

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8634
  • Loves the smell of VihtaVuori in the morning !
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2017, 10:14:39 AM »
► One thing you'll quickly find out... the XL650 is going to want to make thousands of loaded rounds. You're going to want to pull hard on the reigns and just do 6-10 rounds of each incremental load. This is going to be tedious, so I hope you still have your single stage press set up.

► I have read that Winchester hadn't published any 9mm loads for WST because it was too "spikey" with the pressures. At any rate, I think all the user data you'll find out there for WST is for Minor PF. You're going to want a slower powder for Major PF, and Silhouette might just fill the bill. Others will be here shortly to advise on that.

► When you shoot Major PF you are typically chasing a velocity. Please take the maximum velocity from the manual with you to the range with the chrono. This because at the top of the load range velocity tends to flatten out, but unseen and concurrently, the chamber pressure begins to skyrocket upward. Chasing "that last 10 fps" is how guns get blown up. And the "faster" the powder, the quicker you get to that event. The cartoon below tries to show that...



Quote
I understand CZ's prefer shorter OALs, so I'm really just looking for a starting point...

That may be a misunderstanding. In Europe, 9mm is only available as round nose ammo. So CZ designed their 9mm chamber around that very forgiving ogive shape. People who comment about the 9mm CZ chamber are generally using conical, SWC, or JHP ogive shapes, not available in Europe.

40cal is generally only popular in the USA due to the FBI; it is not found in Europe. So the CZ chamber on the standard 40cal line is far more generous, at least it was on my P-07 40. I cannot speak to the CzechMate. Clearly the only thing to do is make the measurements yourself. For competition this is very good practice for each bullet you want to load. Follow the directions in the stickie at the top of the forum entitled "How to determine Max OAL for a CZ Pistol". That will settle every question on Max OAL.


Hope this helps.   ;)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 08:00:59 PM by Wobbly »
In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
Mature reloaders ask: What did I do wrong ?

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3887
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2017, 11:25:52 AM »
Spikey pressures?

I've always been uncomfortable loading near the top of the pressure numbers with any powder but fast burning powders are worse (I read/hear).

I look over the charts in the reloading manuals and take a real interest in the powders that show good velocity with lower pressures.  There seems to always be one or two that are within 50 fps or so of the fastest loads, but still a few thousand psi/cup below the other powders that show comparable velocities.

Not saying that's the best way, just saying I don't like to push near those limits if I can stay away from them.

Not sure how other experienced reloaders feel about that idea/concept/practice.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline painter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5626
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2017, 12:01:20 PM »
Silhouette will easily make major in 40, and at below max load. WST will be there at max load, but without much cushion.

Silhouette is not a good choice for 9mm and major pf, and there's no WST data for 9mm as Mr. W stated..

Maybe use the Silhouette for competition and the WST for practice.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 09:15:25 PM by painter »
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.

Offline Jay Dee

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2018, 07:32:31 PM »
I also shoot a TS in USPSA Limited. My go-to powder for major is VV N320, under 180 grain bullets. OAL in my gun is 1.148". N320 for major is off the standard charts, but much info can be found at the enos forum.

Offline IDescribe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3848
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 10:21:35 PM »
N320 for major is off the standard charts

.40 has only standard charts.  There's no +P for .40.  Best practice is to not exceed load data for .40, regardless of what other people are doing.

Offline Jay Dee

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 11:34:32 PM »
Let me clarify, what I wrote earlier sounded like I was suggesting high pressure loads, and that was not my intention. N320 data for 40 major is not widely published. Neither the current Lyman nor Hornady manuals list N320 in the 40 section. However, it is a great powder for major and minor, burns clean and has a pleasant recoil impulse. VihtaVuori themselves only list a single N320 load each for 165 & 180 grain bullets. The loads that many USPSA shooters have been using for years are not +P loads, and I would certainly never suggest hot loads in 40 - just not enough case volume. For sure, start low and work up cautiously.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 11:36:58 PM by Jay Dee, Reason: Typos »

Offline Wobbly

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8634
  • Loves the smell of VihtaVuori in the morning !
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2018, 08:31:07 AM »
The loads that many USPSA shooters have been using for years are not +P loads, and I would certainly never suggest hot loads in 40 - just not enough case volume.


All loads for 40S&W are +P. 40S&W is +P.
In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
Mature reloaders ask: What did I do wrong ?

Offline John A.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1752
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2018, 09:02:37 AM »
Not sure if this helps you out, but hogdon has a load listed that you may be interested in. 

I don't know how to calculate all the power factor and all the other stuff because I never had a reason to learn, but I know that I get in the upper 1300 and lower 1400 fps territory out of a 5 inch springfield xd tactical model using 155 gr hornady xtp bullets with 9.2 gr of longshot.

I have replaced the guide rod with a sprinco 2 stage and am using a heavier 17lb spring with it too.

I don't have a habit of using them as plinking ammo, but dang if they don't make for some hard hitting defensive loads.  That's getting up into 10mm territory.

When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline IronicTwitch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 466
Re: .40 TS load recipes
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2018, 04:55:44 PM »
Power Factor is easy.

Bullet Weight x FPS / 1,000

155gr x 1300 = 201,500 or 201.5 power factor
155gr x 1400 = 217,000 or 217.0 power factor

Not sure what you're trying to do with that load, but that seems REAALLLY hot.

For reference:
Hornady Critical Duty 40SW 175gr at 1010 fps = 176,750 or 176.75 power factor
Federal Personal Defense Ammunition 40 S&W 155 Grain Hydra-Shok at 1140 fps = 176,700 or 176.7 power factor
Buffalo Bore 40SW 180gr at 1100 fps = 198,000 or 198 power factor

I did find one load from Black Hills in 45 ACP +P that has a power factor in the same range of your 40SW load.  I'm not a ballistics expert on the differences in case pressure between them though.

http://www.black-hills.com/product-category/new-pistol-ammo/

Then there's .44 magnum loads with 345 power factor...  :o
300 Gr. Jacketed Hollow Point
Velocity: 1150 FPS
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 05:09:55 PM by IronicTwitch »

 

anything