Newb with 3AM thoughts about - EVERYTHING!

[nstg8r]

Excellent, thanks guys

[Wobbly]

I would shoot them.

+1

As ID said, this is simply a sign that your process and setup still needs tweaking.

[nstg8r]

I received a small quantity of Campro 147gr FNRP earlier this year  and I finally got around to building a small ladder. The bullets are a decent quality with thick copper platting, I?ve read close to Berry?s Bullets, with a small variance in weight.
COAL 1.22
WIN231
CCI 500

Started at 3.5, 3.7, and ended at 3.9. 3.7 seemed to be the sweet spot.

Shot standing, slow two handed at about 8-9 yards.


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[Wobbly]

Good shooting !

If you really want to see how they group, then you need to shoot some again, but this time support the pistol or your wrists on a sand bag.

How's it feel to be shooting your own ammo ?

[nstg8r]

How's it feel to be shooting your own ammo ?

I'm hooked! It started off being a novelty but now it's becoming more. I like thinking about different aspects of load development.

A question I have is about bullet seating depth. If I reduce the OAL it should increase pressure, producing a faster bullet with a more complete burn, but is there a gross rule of thumb or factor that  approximates the difference in length to an increase in gr of powder?
I know there must be a point where that breaks down or else we'd all be shooting virtually no powder with super short OAL...

If a larger volume of powder produces more recoil does the same amount of powder but reduced OAL also create more recoil?

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a chrono so it's all a "seat of the pants" exercise but it's still fun.

[Wobbly]

What you're saying is true, but there's no fixed rule... for several reasons...

? Most 9mm brass won't allow you to seat deeper than ~0.30". The wall thickness increases internally. Set your caliper to 0.353" and slide the tines of the caliper into the mouth of a cartridge case. You'll soon find a decreasing internal taper that limits Min OAL.

? If the ogive shape is the same, a 147gr is a longer bullet than a 115gr bullet. Therefore the 115gr can run a shorter OAL and not "bottom out", whereas one has to be very careful with the 147gr or it will. So there's not one, single, magic OAL either.

? Also, powder burns progressively better as pressure is increased. So a plot of powder performance is NOT a straight line, it's a curve. What you're suggesting is making a mathematical proportion, which only works on straight line graphs. Still sometimes we use this technique when we have no other clues as to where to start. It's better than nothing, but it only "works" becasue we then back off and begin at a "Starting Load".

If you'll look at my work on the 135gr MBC coated lead RN. There was no data available for a 135gr lead bullet, so I did a proportion between 124gr and 147gr. Turns out 135gr is exactly halfway between those 2 weights. So I proportionalized the loads. The calculation was way off, but I erred to the low side and only my journalistic pride was injured. 

Generally, 9mm loads seem to perform their best...
? With 0.20 to 0.25" seating depth
? With a powder loaded to about 93-95% of Max Load for the velocity you desire

Hope this helps.

[1SOW]

Wobbly's the Man,  so take heed to what he says.
  Another factor is the powder itself.  Nice well-behaved powders follow your thoughts .  Some powders DO NOT follow that thinking except in a very narrow range.  Titegroup pressures are fairly linear in a narrow load range.  A step or two past that range and pressures increase much more dramatically.  Use proportions that take you beyond that well behaved pressure range,  and pressures can  increase dramatically.
 

[Wobbly]

Use proportions that take you beyond that well behaved pressure range, and pressures can increase dramatically.

No, I insist, 1SOW is "Da Man" !! 

Pressures can and will increase dramatically with very few external signs. Even a good chrono can't help you in those regions. The cartoon below tries to graphically explain...




Following yesterday's conversation, here we see that the chamber pressure (red line) developed by the powder is not a straight line. What I show is a very rough approximation, severely limited by my capabilities with the drawing program. I actually believe the curve is much steeper at the upper end.... which is how you end up with this....




 

[jeep45238]

^ Should have used a Ruger, not a Smith :-)

(I kid)


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[M1A4ME]

Some people really shouldn't reload.

The "my gun can take it" mentality always comes to a bad end.

And that's only one of several ways/mentalities that can result in bad things happening in your hand.

[jeep45238]

Some people really shouldn't reload.

The "my gun can take it" mentality always comes to a bad end.

And that's only one of several ways/mentalities that can result in bad things happening in your hand.

Absolutely, hence ?I kid?

That said there is something to some guns being stronger.  There is factory load data out there that explicitly states Ruger only, for what it?s worth.


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[IDescribe]

There is factory load data out there that explicitly states Ruger only, for what it?s worth.

Is there?  I know there's .44 Magnum commercial ammo made by some of the boutique manufacturers like Buffalo Bore that specify "Ruger Only" but didn't know there was published load data that says the same thing.  Of course, I don't load magnum revolver cartridges, so it's not surprising I wouldn't know about "Ruger only" load data.

Would you mind pointing some out?  I am curious to see it. 

[jeep45238]

I?m not home, otherwise I?d take a picture.  I know my manuals have it for 45 colt.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm


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[M1A4ME]

I was referring to standard/regular guns, nothing like the old Colt .45 to the new Ruger .45 comparison for strength or the old Trap Door Springfield .45-70 vs. the new Ruger #1 .45-70 differences.

I was reminded of a guy with a Remington 742 in .30-06 that loaded a grain or two over the max load with 180 grain bullets and bragged that his gun "would take it".  He stopped saying that/doing that the day it ripped the rim off the case, blew the primer out into the action and ended his range trip with us.  Oh, we let him shoot our guns some - with our loads.

Had to take the 742 home and knock that empty out of the chamber with a cleaning rod - and it took a couple good whacks, too.

[IDescribe]

I?m not home, otherwise I?d take a picture.  I know my manuals have it for 45 colt.

Gotcha.  I am aware of loading .45 Colt over spec for Ruger Blackhawks (and now that I read the Chuckhawk article, the TC) ? but even when it?s published data, it?s overspec.  There?s no official spec for that.  I thought you meant manufacturers were offering extended Ruger-only data, in general.  If I?d known you were talking about this specific instance of loading an old low pressure cartridge for a couple specific models...