Author Topic: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325  (Read 18329 times)

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Offline Vinny

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CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
« on: December 24, 2017, 09:50:18 AM »
Hey Guys,
For anyone wishing to try a nice Red Dot set-up on their CZ 75 variant with co-witness FO Front site for under $325 without milling here's a DIY with new images and a parts list. I've run this combo now for over 6 months with great results. Thought I'd share.
(I'm updating an earlier post that had deleted photo-bucket images)


The mount is a Leupold p/n 170903 for CZ 75's that fits the rear dovetail. ~$29
The optic is a JPoint from JP Enterprises that exactly fits the Leupold mount and has a rear co-witness notch built-in ~on sale ~ $255
The Front FO is .275 tall from Dawson ~$39

Simple to do once you remove the old sights. Only 'trick' is I used a single layer of Gorilla duct tape under the mount (cut around dovetail) to help lock it onto the slide. Also had to switch the mount screws to shorter button head socket cap screws 4-.70 x8 from ACE Hardware. This image shows gorilla tape on underside of mount:

The combo sits nice and low for a perfect set-up without milling.
 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 08:36:12 AM by Vinny »
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Offline Tanners Owner

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 11:06:13 AM »
Looks great. No issues with the tape bunching up when you pushed the sight base in?
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Offline Vinny

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 11:19:54 AM »
Looks great. No issues with the tape bunching up when you pushed the sight base in?

Great question. I pasted the tape on the underside of mount, then took a small razor knife and carefully trimmed around edges and cut out the square where dovetail fits thru. The black Gorilla tape is thick and durable so once screwed down it's locked for good.  Hasn't budged whatsoever.  I'm trying to remember the correct length of button head cap screws; if I recall it was 4mm x 8.

What's nice about this setup is how low it sits w/o milling slide (as scale shows only 3/8" above slide), you only need a .275 tall x 95w F.O. front site $39 from Dawson. Yes, there are other mounting set-ups available for CZ 75's; some make the optic sit way high and I doubt any co-witness setups will sit this low without milling your slide (~$150), and only require a .275 high front site. The higher the red dot sits, the more parallax effect you will have causing your shots to go higher at more distance, or low at close distance. Not a big deal if your target is moment of BG, but for bulls eye shooters this may be important. Anyhow, I like how compact it is without having the expense of milling or permanent alteration of my firearm. My old eyes really appreciate the red dot.  YMMV
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 03:08:16 PM by Vinny »
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Offline SP01bob

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 04:28:20 PM »
Ok, I like the way it looks to have it co-witnessed, but isn't the round going to hit wherever the dot is on the optic?  If so, what's the purpose of co-witnessing the dot?  Wouldn't it only slow down sight acquisition?  I'm trying to understand before I go out and do mine.

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Offline Vinny

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 05:20:11 PM »
Very good question; I'm no expert by any means but here's what I understand:
 
There's a two-fold benefit to co-witness irons.
1. If it's a Defensive pistol; and you draw only to find the red dot is out (electronic or battery failure) the co-witness is your back up sight. In a pressure situation you have the confidence the irons will be there no matter what.
2. The irons serve as a reference to help you bring the red dot into the picture quickly. Eventually, you'll develop muscle memory, and just bring the gun onto plane with the dot.

If it's simply a range gun; and target acquisition time is not important; then co-witness is not important. Springer and others also make mounts for CZ-75's, and there are other good optics like RMR's, Leupold DP-Pro, Burris Fast-Fire, Vortex, etc, etc. but generally the combo of mount and optic they sit much higher. But, they may also have advantages over the JPoint and the price goes up accordingly. YMMV  I'm simply trying to offer a good cost-effective starting point.

I will say this; once you get used to a red dot; you can acquire and hit multiple targets so much faster. You are looking through the 'window' with both eyes fully open not squinting, placing the dot quickly on your target like a laser; so your peripheral vision is fully engaged seeing the next target(s) or other threats in the room. Especially beneficial if you have old eyes like mine.

In any event; co-witness or not; this particular JPoint red dot and mount set-up is still relevant and cost-effective on a CZ 75 even if you choose not to use the co-witness front sight.  If for some reason you don't like the red dot simply remove it and you haven't milled up your slide.
Hope this info helps.

P.S. On the benefits of pistol Red Dots, I defer to much more experienced CZ administrator/members like s0nespark who uses one on his EDC P-07 or Joe L who uses one on his Bulls-eye CZ pistols shooting 100 yard targets lights-out. Joe L's bulls-eye videos blow me away!!
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 09:52:26 AM by Vinny, Reason: typo correction »
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Offline 1steelshooter

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2017, 02:25:07 AM »
Ok, I like the way it looks to have it co-witnessed, but isn't the round going to hit wherever the dot is on the optic?  If so, what's the purpose of co-witnessing the dot?  Wouldn't it only slow down sight acquisition?  I'm trying to understand before I go out and do mine.

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Co-witnessing is a good thing. Years ago I had a docter red dot on a 75b and it sat high enough that I couldn't co witness the front sight. At times I would bring the gun up and I couldn't find the dot especially weak handed. Being able to see the front sight gives you a guide when looking for the dot.

Offline SP01bob

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2017, 02:36:25 AM »
Ok, I like the way it looks to have it co-witnessed, but isn't the round going to hit wherever the dot is on the optic?  If so, what's the purpose of co-witnessing the dot?  Wouldn't it only slow down sight acquisition?  I'm trying to understand before I go out and do mine.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Co-witnessing is a good thing. Years ago I had a docter red dot on a 75b and it sat high enough that I couldn't co witness the front sight. At times I would bring the gun up and I couldn't find the dot especially weak handed. Being able to see the front sight gives you a guide when looking for the dot.
That makes sense, thanks for explaining. I'm curious though, if the dot isn't right on or over the front sight, is it still going to be zeroed wherever you see it? In other words, does it have to be on the front sight?

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Offline Vinny

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2017, 09:11:34 AM »
Before using a red dot, I wondered the same thing. Yes, during the zeroing process the red dot will be just above your irons, but that's not how you'll use it. You'll discover even a slight movement of the muzzle will move the red dot around considerably (kinda like a magnified rifle scope); that's why it's so accurate compared to the irons. Once zeroed in, the red dot is exactlywhere the bullet will hit. Using both eyes open looking through the reticle at the target you'll simply place the dot on your target (generally it will be in the center of the reticle) then you pull the trigger. Bingo, like a laser that's where the bullet will go.
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Offline SP01bob

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2017, 09:40:39 AM »

Very good question; I'm no expert by any means but here's what I understand:
 
There's a two-fold benefit to co-witness irons.
1. If it's a Defensive pistol; and you draw only to find the red dot is out (electronic or battery failure) the co-witness is your back up sight. In a pressure situation you have the confidence the irons will be there no matter what.
2. The irons serve as a reference to help you bring the red dot into the picture quickly. Eventually, you'll develop muscle memory, and just bring the gun onto plane with the dot.

If it's simply a range gun; and target acquisition time is not important; then co-witness is not important. Springer and others also make mounts for CZ-75's, and there are other good optics like RMR's, Leupold DP-Pro, Burris Fast-Fire, Vortex, etc, etc. but generally he combo of mount and optic they sit much higher. But, they may also have advantages over the JPoint and the price goes up accordingly. YMMV  I'm simply trying to offer a good cost-effective starting point.

I will say this; once you get used to a red dot; you can acquire and hit multiple targets so much faster. You are looking through the 'window' with both eyes fully open not squinting, placing the dot quickly on your target like a laser; so your peripheral vision is fully engaged seeing the next target(s) or other threats in the room. Especially beneficial if you have old eyes like mine.

In any event; co-witness or not; this particular JPoint red dot and mount set-up is still relevant and cost-effective on a CZ 75 even if you choose not to use the co-witness front sight.  If for some reason you don't like the red dot simply remove it and you haven't milled up your slide.
Hope this info helps.

P.S. On the benefits of pistol Red Dots, I defer to much more experienced CZ administrator/members like s0nespark who uses one on his EDC P-07 or Joe L who uses one on his Bulls-eye CZ pistols shooting 100 yard targets lights-out. Joe L's bulls-eye videos blow me away!!

Vinny, I really appreciate your explanation. That does make sense.

Not sure if I missed something along the thread, but what is a JPoint? I have a M&P Performance Center with slide slots that I will probably try first, and if I like it I may have a Shadow 2 milled for one. I have a Shadow 2 ordered, not received yet. My SP01  has become my best shooter, so I thought the S2 with a Red Dot would be the next place to go.


Before using a red dot, I wondered the same thing. Yes, during the zeroing process the red dot will be just above your irons, but that's not how you'll use it. You'll discover even a slight movement of the muzzle will move the red dot around considerably (kinda like a magnified rifle scope); that's why it's so accurate compared to the irons. Once zeroed in, the red dot is exactlywhere the bullet will hit. Using both eyes open looking through the reticle at the target you'll simply place the dot on your target (generally it will be in the center of the reticle) then you pull the trigger. Bingo, like a laser that's where the bullet will go.

That makes sense as well. I use a SIRT laser pistol for my dry fire practice and have been training on point/shoot not using the sights. It has helped with my accuracy tremendously and I keep two eyes open, and yes, my eyes are getting older too.

Man I appreciate your time.


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Offline newageroman

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 09:52:50 AM »
Great Idea Vinny. You know I like the cheaper options that will put you in the game. I'm commenting to mark this thread for future if I decide to go red dot.
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Offline Vinny

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2017, 08:54:26 PM »
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.
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Offline Mccian

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2017, 10:20:36 AM »
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.

Hi Vinny,
Anyway you could post a link? I?m unable to find the Leupold 17093 part number.....great idea...
“Life doesn’t have to be perfect......to be good”

CZ 75 Omega Convertible
CZ P01 Compact Steel SKU#99041
CZ “CWC” Edition
CZ P-10C FDE...shared
Other......M&P Shield .45, Browning Buckmark .22 (wife’s, but I have to clean it)

Offline Vinny

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2017, 02:08:27 PM »
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.

Hi Vinny,
Anyway you could post a link? I?m unable to find the Leupold 17093 part number.....great idea...

Thanks for pointing out, I left a zero out of p/n should be: 170903.
You can Google for best deal but here's a link to one at Optics Planet (they frequently run 10% off deals too): https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-deltapoint-pro-dovetail-mount.html?_iv_code=LU-MT-LDPPDMT-170903&image=29ee800dc5 
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 02:13:09 PM by Vinny »
"Fear is a reaction, Courage is a decision"
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Offline Mccian

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 08:05:28 PM »
Thanks for the info
“Life doesn’t have to be perfect......to be good”

CZ 75 Omega Convertible
CZ P01 Compact Steel SKU#99041
CZ “CWC” Edition
CZ P-10C FDE...shared
Other......M&P Shield .45, Browning Buckmark .22 (wife’s, but I have to clean it)

Offline Catdaddy2

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Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2017, 01:36:48 PM »
I like the idea of no milling in the case you don't like it. Looks good and clean on the slide.

 

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