Softest shooting clone for bad hands?

[Yegs]

I've been researching low recoil 9mm handguns as I've got some nerve issues in my hands. It appears that a CZ design with its low bore position and heavy mass is a good choice. I also have a budget of about $300. I will rarely, if ever, carry this gun....so a full size version is fine.

First off for those who have shot a variety of the CZ clones - is the recoil on the full metal versions significantly less than their corresponding polymer versions? Not sure how, but the listed mass on the full metal appears to be fairly close to the same size polymers for the EAA clones - and these do not seem to be close to the 40oz weight listed for an actual CZ 75.

Another problem is the full steel clones don't seem to be available for a reasonable price, unlike the polymer version. I recall about two years when I last considered purchasing one of these clones seeing the full steel SAR B6 go for about $300. Any advice is appreciated!

[win308]

EAA Pavona in 380, (by Tanfoglio) should be what you're looking for.

[CZATC]

If you don't mind me asking what kind of nerve damage? Diminished sensation to the digits/palm or a decreased strength from motor nerve impairment or both? I work in sports medicine is why I ask so diminished strength in digits 1-3 vs constant pins and needles in 4-5 is different.

Budget is tough but doable, you'd be really set if you could say $350.

I HAVE a canik c100 which is an aluminum frame Turkish clone of the cz 75 compact. It's a nice compromise of the steel vs. polymer and is close to your budget but a little above (299-360ish). Only issue I see with it and why I ask about the extent of nerve damage is the very heavy DA of the C100. Other wise it shoots nice and straight for me but beaver tail is short for my fat hand so I'd definitely try to hold one.

SAR B6P compact or full size. Polymer gun, also Turkish and look very similar to the Italian guns and in a similar low 300s price range.

They other option you may consider if you can save a little more is another compromise...the polymer framed eaa/tanfo witness p carry. It has a full size polymer frame allowing you a longer grip to take advantage of and a compact slide length. I am not sure about the 9mm but the 10mm has the dual recoil spring set up and most like the way it shoots. It is the budget buster though as I have seen them as high as Glocks in the 500 range.

Buds has the EAA/Tanfo 'carry' version (999044) that takes witness 'classic' mags for $330 right now. That means it will be the small frame pattern and possibly cz mag compatible since that is pre 2005 spec

Also the Rock Island MAP/MAPP series is essentially the same as the EAA steel/polymer And has the same set ups available (full size, compact, carry)

Sorry for the wall of text and suggestions I have not personally shot. It's just that when making a decision on a budget to fill a specific purpose I like all the info I can find. Also, I tried to put every clone out there if you haven't considered it so you can be on the look out for sales. Also since you were thinking steel, most don't consider the RIA because they are more known for their 1911 style firearms.

I'm sure some more folks will chime in with their experiences. Good luck in your seach!

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[DF_Hammack]

ALL CZ clones shoot pretty soft, just as the real deal does, but the softest would be a a steel frame... more mass to absorb the recoil. Of course, they weigh more. My P100 tips the scale at 44oz with 15+1. I have the Tristar P100, compact. It's pretty soft; the P120 would be softer. SAR also produces steel pistols. The B6 (not the B6P) was steel, but I think they have rebranded it. Tanfoglio Witnesses are great shooters in steel, but they tend to run a little more expensive. My best recommendation would be a Tristar P120 or S120 (100 if you want the compact).

[DanPop985]

Not a CZ clone but the Beretta px4 storm in 9mm is a soft shooter due to its rotating barrel design. Very dependable and accurate.

[Yegs]

CZATC, the nerve issues are similar to carpal tunnel - mainly weakness in thumb, index, and forefinger. Orthopedic surgeon originally thought the issue stemmed from pinched nerves in the neck but MRI was negative - I just gave up after that episode and have resorted to sleeping with wrist stabilizers and avoiding any activities that really worsen the condition. The sensation is not that of pins and needles, but rather a dull pain/weakness that is not always present.

My hands are relatively small, so maybe that Canik c100 is a good candidate. If I can find one close to my target price, my preference is for an all steel version which should absorb more of the recoil - what's the weight of your c100?

DF, any idea if those Tristar P120 or S120 are available anywhere for $300?

Dan - I had heard about the Beretta px4...any idea how this stacks up against the above mentioned CZ clones as far as recoil is concerned? How about price?

[cntrydawwwg]

Since recoil is subjective to each person, it?s hard to say. I can say I don?t notice much if any difference shooting my poly Phantom vs my all steel SP01 Tactical. So I don?t think you necessarily need the all steel clones. But of course I also own a couple .44mags, so that?s probably why I don?t notice the recoil.

   I also believe a heavier bullet will feel ?softer?, like say 124 or 147 grain, vs. the 115.
   
   To get into a Tristar/Canik it would be easier if you could raise your budget by $100. For $400 you could have one shipped and probably cover FFL fees. Or if found locally, could also by a couple extra boxes of ammo. YMMV.
   Good luck with your search.

[DF_Hammack]

CZATC, the nerve issues are similar to carpal tunnel - mainly weakness in thumb, index, and forefinger. Orthopedic surgeon originally thought the issue stemmed from pinched nerves in the neck but MRI was negative - I just gave up after that episode and have resorted to sleeping with wrist stabilizers and avoiding any activities that really worsen the condition. The sensation is not that of pins and needles, but rather a dull pain/weakness that is not always present.

My hands are relatively small, so maybe that Canik c100 is a good candidate. If I can find one close to my target price, my preference is for an all steel version which should absorb more of the recoil - what's the weight of your c100?

DF, any idea if those Tristar P120 or S120 are available anywhere for $300?

Dan - I had heard about the Beretta px4...any idea how this stacks up against the above mentioned CZ clones as far as recoil is concerned? How about price?

OK, Yegs... The best deal I came up with was on Mr. Gun Dealer. The ad says it's a P120, but an S120 is pictured. The S120 is an all steel C120. The P120 is an all steel, CZ P-09 clone. Whichever one it is, the price is $360 + $30 shipping and handling, then whatever your FFL fees are. You could have it, I guess for less than $450. That's about what I paid for P100. You might check out GunBroker, too. They often have auction Tanfoglios in steel going for around $300.

I am inclined to agree with cntrydawwg, after thinking about it. I have both the P100, and the B6P. that is a full size polymer CZ clone, and truthfully, I prefer my P100, but I really don't notice a lot of difference when I switch to my B6P, even in a shoot. I don't have nerve damage, but my hands are pretty arthritic. I have no trouble shooting either, equally well. An aluminum frame C, T, or L, 120 or 100) splits the difference between poly and steel.

If you are interested in it, here is the URL for the MrGunDealer gun...
http://www.mrgundealer.com/handguns/semi-automatic-handguns/tristar-p-120-pistol-9mm-47-171-blk-checkered-grips-blued

You

[jwc007]

Another problem is the full steel clones don't seem to be available for a reasonable price, unlike the polymer version. I recall about two years when I last considered purchasing one of these clones seeing the full steel SAR B6 go for about $300. Any advice is appreciated!

My SAR B6P was $295 out the door, from my favorite local Gunshop and I would recommend it to anyone.  I've actually thought that it recoils less than my steel framed Pistols, but this may be dependent on what you feed it.


EAA SAR B6P Full Size 9mm Pistol shown with Hogue Handall and Mec-Gar 19 round Cz75B Magazine installed.

[DF_Hammack]

Yegs... There ar a BUNCH of NEW Tanfoglio 919 Force compacts on GunBroker. It's an all steel gun. Opening bids are $259. This is an Armscor, contract made Tanfoglio. Armscor bulds good guns and should equal Tanfoglio, Canik55, or SAR...

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=Surplus+Tanfoglio+919+Force+Compact+9mm
And...
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=ARMSCOR+MAPP+22+TCM+9R
Then there is this Israeli Shooting Club, range gun. I can vouch that it's a great model, but cant say anything about the condition of this particular gun...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/733075539

[Yegs]

I was hoping someone would chime in and say the all steel full sized model XXX has half the recoil of the polymer version...but that does not seem to be the case.

That SAR B6P is going to be over $100 less than an S120, P120, or P100. DF, how do those Tanfoglio surplus weapons compare? Is it pretty much a coin toss between all these models?

[DF_Hammack]

I was hoping someone would chime in and say the all steel full sized model XXX has half the recoil of the polymer version...but that does not seem to be the case.

That SAR B6P is going to be over $100 less than an S120, P120, or P100. DF, how do those Tanfoglio surplus weapons compare? Is it pretty much a coin toss between all these models?

Those particular Tanfoglio 919's are BRAND NEW compacts, made under contract for Tanfoglio, by Armscor. They were probably surplused from a police contract. If you have never heard of them, they make the Rock Island Arsenal 1911's, among many others. They are a reputable company with a good quality control, manufacturing in the Philippines. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one...

The Israeli surplus guns are generally in good condition.

[Yegs]

DF, what am I missing, the description for those 919's state they are in good used condition? Also, since those are compacts, surely they will not be as comfortable as a full size gun?

[DF_Hammack]

That SAR B6P is going to be over $100 less than an S120, P120, or P100. DF, how do those Tanfoglio surplus weapons compare? Is it pretty much a coin toss between all these models?

SORRY... Bad info. These Tanfo's are Polymer! One ad said they were steel, another polymer... I looked closely, and they are polymer. Still good guns, but not what you are looking for.

I have to wonder how many Witness P's are made in the Philippines, now

[CZATC]

C100 is about 32-34 ounces loaded and around 24 unloaded.  Recoil is so subjective, I don't find the polymer cz's to have more recoil, like beating the palm black and blue, just a little more 'muzzle flip'. Not what you asked for but my brothers P07 feels similar to the c100 in my hand Just a different balance. 07 feels nose heavy with no mag.

Try to find someone who will allow you to test drive near you. That's the best way of course.

Understood, i get a similar feeling in my leg from time to time due to disc injuries from sport. Itll come out of no where sometimes just a catch then deep ache and can't lift from seated position sometimes but its better when I do my rehab....when I do my rehab lol.

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