Softest shooting clone for bad hands?

[Rcher]

I have Sarsilmaz Mega from TR Imports and Beretta 92FS. Both shoot very accurate with minimum recoil. SAR Mega factory grips are very good, it feels like a glove in my hand. Beretta 92FS is huge, but after I replaced grips with LOK ultrathin grips, it is now thinner than Mega. And I can shoot by a single hand easily. I have medium hands with short fingers. I got Sar Mega stainless steel for $426 + sales tax and Beretta 92fs for $450 + FFL fee + use tax.

[Horse Soldier]

Concerning 'muzzle flip' - The  'genitron'  site should give some indication of that with the "Recoil Factor" number.
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The 9MM SAR B6P compact shows  5.32 Lbs  where a Ruger rimfire SR22 only rates a  .26 Lbs  recoil factor because
it is a 'blow back' operation pistol. 
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The Ruger would also allow a shooter with weak hands the ease of operating the slide with less spring resistance.
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With regards to a 'blow back' design pistol, perhaps looking at a Bersa Thunder 380 might be considered also.

[DF_Hammack]

Concerning 'muzzle flip' - The  'genitron'  site should give some indication of that with the "Recoil Factor" number.

I couldn't find any info on how recoil factor is determined. Is it calculated by firearm weight against muzzle energy? Is it measured in actual fire of the pistol? If so, how? Do they measure the horizontal force from actually firing the pistol? Either of these would be misleading. By measuring the horizontal force, you simply discard the vertical force, or in a rigid instrument, combine them.  Calculation yields the combined vertical and horizontal force. To account for muzzle flip, you would have to subtract the measured horizontal force from the calculated force or measure the vertical force at the end of the barrel. Without knowing their method, the "Recoil Factor" is worthless

[Yegs]

To get information on any handgun and to compare pistols (recoil factor, weight, capacity, etc) go into this site;
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www.genitron.com
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You'll find most of the answers to your questions here.

Interesting website.

Pulled some recoil numbers from the guns I've considered:

PX4 full size: 4.96ft-lb
CZ P-07: 5ft-lb
CZ-75B 340z: 4.12ft-lb
CZ SP-01 38oz: 3.68ft-lb
Tristar P-100 36oz: 3.68ft-lb
Tristar P-120 40oz: 3.54ft-lb
EAA B6P 29oz: 4.87ft-lb
EAA Witness 330z: 4.25ft-lb

Bersa Thunder .380: 2.81 ft-lb (not 9mm though)

However, as DF points out, these recoil values would only really be instructive if the methodology behind their calculation is explained. There is an obvious correlation between the recoil values and weight though.

 

[rabble_rouser]

I can get a new TR Imports Mega Steel Alloy for just under $360 shipped. This gun appears to be the same as the Sars B6 Hawk. I'm down to this gun or the full sized polymer B6P for $100 less... or wait to find a Beretta PX4 for about the same price as the TR Imports Mega. I'm leaning towards the heavier steel TR Imports CZ copy.

I'll try go by another range this week and see if they have the Beretta PX4 and/or any CZs or clones for me to test.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/732021814


I'm late to the party, as usual.   The Sarsilmaz Mega IS a rebranded B6 Hawk, no idea why they felt it necessarly to rebrand it. You can get a new B6P full size for even less on sale right now at CDNN, $239.99. They have the compact model for the same price, but only available in pink. You can view both at the link below, as well as one I'm surprised no one threw out there: the SAR K2P. The K2P has essentially the same polymer frame as the B6P, however, the slide is blockier and heavier which to me seems to help reduce felt recoil as well as muzzle flip. It's currently on sale also at CDNN for $249.99. All of these Sarsilmaz pistols from CDNN will come with only 1 magazine.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/eaa-sarb6p-9mm-4-5-bbl-polymer-frame-1-17rd-mag.html?___SID=U#.WkdAFXlG270

[Horse Soldier]

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This web site is complicated, but it gives an idea of what is involved........................................
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Shooters Recoil Calculator

www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

Recoil Energy Calculator.  ...  Use the chart below to see the recoil ... (lbs) Recoil Impulse

[DF_Hammack]

I'm late to the party, as usual.   The Sarsilmaz Mega IS a rebranded B6 Hawk, no idea why they felt it necessarly to rebrand it. You can get a new B6P full size for even less on sale right now at CDNN, $239.99. They have the compact model for the same price, but only available in pink. You can view both at the link below, as well as one I'm surprised no one threw out there: the SAR K2P. The K2P has essentially the same polymer frame as the B6P, however, the slide is blockier and heavier which to me seems to help reduce felt recoil as well as muzzle flip. It's currently on sale also at CDNN for $249.99. All of these Sarsilmaz pistols from CDNN will come with only 1 magazine.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/eaa-sarb6p-9mm-4-5-bbl-polymer-frame-1-17rd-mag.html?___SID=U#.WkdAFXlG270

I don't know why they rebranded the B6 Hawk, but I can make a good guess... I think was because of the confusion with the same model number on both steel and poly guns. It confused me at first, but I caught on quick 

SAR pistols are great shooters. I even carried my B6P for a while after I decided I really hated my previous EDC, while I waited on my P100. The B6P is every bit as accurate as my P100, and maybe a skoshe more, but that probably has more to do with barrel length. My ONLY complaint with the B6P is the trigger. Not the way it functions, but the way it is made. The corners where the trigger flat breaks to the sides are brutally sharp. This is not bad on gun you only shoot occasionally, because it ensures a positive grip on the trigger, but this not the best idea for a range gun. I get around it by putting a Band-Aid on my trigger finger when I take it out to the range. Anyway, I think I heard they have improved that trigger.

[DF_Hammack]

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This web site is complicated, but it gives an idea of what is involved........................................
.
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Shooters Recoil Calculator

www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

Recoil Energy Calculator.  ...  Use the chart below to see the recoil ... (lbs) Recoil Impulse

So it is definite. This formula in no way accounts for muzzle flip. This is why the bore axis is important.  The lower the bore axis, the more recoil impulse  transfers to lower in the frame, directing it more into the meat and bone of your hand and arm, instead of OVER your hand. With recoil impulse going over your hand, it exerts a torque force, with your hand as the pivot, and the grip as a lever. The longer the lever, the more it multiplies the force rocking the muzzle up. The torque force is not negligible.  This is why free pistols make extensive use of barrel and grip weights. The grip weights cancel torque force, and the barrel weights balance the frame against the grip.

This means "recoil factor" could even be misleading. If the gun gets its extra weight from a taller slide, the recoil force over your hand is greater, creating more muzzle flip.

[rabble_rouser]

I don't know why they rebranded the B6 Hawk, but I can make a good guess... I think was because of the confusion with the same model number on both steel and poly guns. It confused me at first, but I caught on quick 

SAR pistols are great shooters. I even carried my B6P for a while after I decided I really hated my previous EDC, while O waited on my P100. The B6P is every bit as accurate as my P100, and maybe a skoshe more, but that probably has more to do with barrel length. My ONLY complaint with the B6P is the trigger. Not the way it functions, but the way it is made. The corners where the trigger flat breaks to the sides are brutally sharp. This is not bad on gun you only shoot occasionally, because it ensures a positive grip on the trigger, but this not the best idea for a range gun. I get around it by putting a Band-Aid on my trigger finger when I take it out to the range. Anyway, I think I heard they have improved that trigger.

Apologies to the OP for drifting off-topic slightly (but you might find this useful as well) and to you sir if I offend. 

I've seen the complaints about the B6P trigger having sharp edges and I asked myself "How big are these people's hands?". I'm 5'4" with small hands and I find that the smaller the pistol the easier it is for the trigger to creep into the crook of my finger. While it feels natural it can also be uncomfortable if the edges aren't rounded. I have to consciously remind myself to place the pad of my finger squarely on the trigger because of this, as well as causing me to pull my shots off-center.

With larger pistols like my .22 TCM RIA 1911A2 I don't have that problem because the larger grip doesn't allow my finger to go around the trigger as far, the pad of my finger sits where it should on the trigger. I have no issues with the B6P trigger myself but I can see where it might be annoying to someone with larger hands.


Having rambled all that, there's nothing a piece of Emory cloth and a Sharpie can't fix on those sharp trigger edges. 

[dohc97]

I have had several CZs and clones and the softest one so far I have owned is the Jericho 941.

[weaselfire]

If the primary concern is recoil, get a bigger, heavier gun in a smaller caliber.

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Horse Soldier]

This report has some interesting statistics regarding 'Incpacitation' per caliber - one shot. 
The % might be enlightening as per caliber.
Look at the 22, 380, and 9mm among all those included in the results.
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Information put together by a police firearms and tactics instructor after years of collecting data.
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handgun stopping power - Buckeye Firearms Association

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

[Moken]

My P120 is the softest shooting handgun I ran with "real" round in it. Even with my warmer reloads in it very little rise or kick. My tiny wife loves shooting it. But then she loves her T100 which is her carry piece.

[DF_Hammack]

This report has some interesting statistics regarding 'Incpacitation' per caliber - one shot. 
The % might be enlightening as per caliber.
Look at the 22, 380, and 9mm among all those included in the results.
.
Information put together by a police firearms and tactics instructor after years of collecting data.
.
.
handgun stopping power - Buckeye Firearms Association

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

While this post is completely off topic, it is a very good article. It offers a quite different perspective on caliber efficacy than any other article I have read on the topic. Perhaps I like it because it supports what I have said from intuition with actual research. This article is so good, it might warrant a post of its own to call attention to it.

[jwc007]

You might still be able to find the EA9B small frame 9mm Witness in the $250 range, which is an all steel 9mm with a plain Black Parkerized finish.

https://youtu.be/j4dOOYgwa3U