Author Topic: BTA90 Reliability Issues  (Read 1157 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 59cummins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
BTA90 Reliability Issues
« on: January 01, 2018, 11:53:31 AM »
Happy New Years everyone! I've been reading the forum for a little but this is my first post. I recently scored a BTA90 in good condition (just a little standard wear) with one mag for $200 out the door at a local gun show. Based off the year marking (AS in a box) above the trigger guard I believe the pistol was made in 1987. I enjoy shooting the gun (my first steel frame non-striker fired 9mm), however the gun malfunctions (spent case not getting out the gun and next round partially stripped off the mag) every 3-5 rounds which I need to fix as I would like this to be my "truck gun." Details on the malfunctions:

Ammunition - these malfunctions occur with all the ammo I have run through the gun: Federal 115 gr FMJ, Blazer Brass 124 gr FMJ (majority of the ammo run through the gun), Freedom Munitions new manufacture 147 gr FMJ, Browning 147 gr FMJ flat point.

Mags - the stock mag (12 rounds) doesn't lock the slide to the rear reliably. I picked up a new CZ 11101 mag (16 rounds) which does lock the slide. Malfunctions occur regardless of which mag is used.

Gunsmith - I took the pistol to a master gunsmith, he polished and cut the feed ramp and fully cleaned the gun. He thought the long FMJs were having trouble getting into the chamber. He said there was junk behind the extractor. Gun continued to malfunction.

Springs - at the recommendation of the gunsmith I ordered a new mainspring (factory weight) from Wolff. I also got a hammer spring and 25% over extractor spring from Wolff. I installed the guide rod spring - this did not change how the gun malfunctioned.

Extractor - I first thought the extractor was the issue as the spent case was not getting out the chamber. But after the gunsmith cleaned out the extractor the case has been getting out of the chamber. I also tried the extractor test I saw on other threads of taking the slide off and sticking an empty case under the extractor. The extractor held the case just fine event after I shook the slide. I see no need for the 25% stronger extractor.

What to do next? I thought maybe the ejector could be causing the problem since the case typically gets stuck horizontally between the chamber and the slide (usually doesn't stove pipe). I also notice that the with the new spring it is more difficult to lock the slide to the rear. I assumed this was because the spring was new but now maybe I'm thinking the spring is not allowing the slide to go back the whole way to hit the ejector? The slide does lock opening on the last round fired and I can manually lock the slide to the rear (although this is more difficult than with the old spring).

The gun does cycle snap caps fine if you run the slide quickly. Running the slide slow usually results in the snap cap not getting off the extractor. The gun has been cleaned after each range session.

Any thoughts on what my next step should be? Thanks!

Offline Texf6

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2018, 02:16:11 AM »
Have you examined the ejector? That will be the part that engages the shell casing upon extraction from the breech when it reaches full compressed recoil.  With the slide retracted and locked it will be the protrusion that would be visible on the lower left of the breech face with the pistol pointed down range and looking into the pistol from the ejection port.  Best seen with magazine removed from the pistol. Perhaps someone modified it to keep brass from being kicked out too far.  I believe in these pistols it’s part of the sear pack.  Field stripping the firearm and you can examine more closely on the firearm frame.  Just my two cents.
TexF6

Offline 59cummins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2018, 07:06:55 PM »
Here is what my ejector looks like. Do you see anything wrong with it?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c0bGufECvc5UpqG6n_-4k7XmXp8H3tCD4tEjfWStGrY/edit?usp=sharing

Sorry if that is difficult to view the pictures. I could not get the photo sharing links to work.

Thanks

Offline jwc007

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7394
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2018, 08:59:22 PM »
Here is what my ejector looks like. Do you see anything wrong with it?

Yup!  :o  There's not much left of it!  ::)  Replace it, pronto!  :)

You're missing about 3/8" of it's extension.

Now after seeing that, I find this...........disturbing!

Gunsmith - I took the pistol to a master gunsmith, he polished and cut the feed ramp and fully cleaned the gun. He thought the long FMJs were having trouble getting into the chamber. He said there was junk behind the extractor. Gun continued to malfunction.

When seeking Gunsmithing help, it helps to find one that is familiar with the Cz/Tanfoglio design, and Semi-Automatic Pistols in general.
Unfortunately, many do not advertise their particular specialties.

Back when I did some general Gunsmithing, I did not get paid, unless I fixed whatever I was working on.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 09:08:26 PM by jwc007 »
"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda


For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline 59cummins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2018, 09:41:45 PM »
Here is what my ejector looks like. Do you see anything wrong with it?

Yup!  :o  There's not much left of it!  ::)  Replace it, pronto!  :)

You're missing about 3/8" of it's extension.

Now after seeing that, I find this...........disturbing!

Yep sure enough after further inspection I can see that the ejector is broken. I feel like I got a good deal at $200 but so much for that now.

Based on what I see online it looks like the ejector and sear housing are one piece. I found these...would they work in my pistol/is this what I should expect to pay?

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/113910B

http://benstoegerproshop.com/eaa-tanfoglio-witness-sear-assembly-housing-with-ejector-13-1/

Thank you

Offline jwc007

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7394
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 03:02:19 PM »
Based on what I see online it looks like the ejector and sear housing are one piece. I found these...would they work in my pistol/is this what I should expect to pay?

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/113910B

Ouch!  :o  New York prices!  ::)

Unfortunately, I'm thinking that the Numerich/Gunpartscorp part is your best option here, as there has been some dimensional tolerance changes with the Tanfoglio/EAA Witness line, and that is the way I would go, were it mine.

BTW, mine has served me very well over the years, when I did carry it.  Won one IDPA Match with it.


Compact Series 88 Tanfoglio TA90 9mm - Magazine Capacity 13 rounds.
Very Accurate and Reliable. Will also use Compact small frame 13 round Witness Magazines.
"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda


For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline 59cummins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2018, 08:47:03 PM »
Based on what I see online it looks like the ejector and sear housing are one piece. I found these...would they work in my pistol/is this what I should expect to pay?

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/113910B

Ouch!  :o  New York prices!  ::)

Unfortunately, I'm thinking that the Numerich/Gunpartscorp part is your best option here, as there has been some dimensional tolerance changes with the Tanfoglio/EAA Witness line, and that is the way I would go, were it mine.

BTW, mine has served me very well over the years, when I did carry it.  Won one IDPA Match with it.


Compact Series 88 Tanfoglio TA90 9mm - Magazine Capacity 13 rounds.
Very Accurate and Reliable. Will also use Compact small frame 13 round Witness Magazines.

Yeah I thought the part for Numerich would be a safer bet for that same reason. Maybe they will spare me on shipping since I'm in PA...the more freedom friendly side of the NY state line.

I like my BTA90...looking forward to it being 100% reliable. It kinda looks like the mag body would hit the ejector...could that have possibly broken the ejector?

I would assume mine is considered a pre-B and pre-88 Tanfoglio since it was made in 1987? I thought I would have had a harder time finding a mag for it but I was pleasantly surprised to find that the CZ 11101 mag worked that I found in my local gun shop.

Offline jwc007

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7394
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 03:18:06 AM »
It kinda looks like the mag body would hit the ejector...could that have possibly broken the ejector?

Doubtful, as the taper on the Magazine body should stop it, but you never know with non-standard magazines.

Good Luck with it!  :)
"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda


For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline Texf6

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 11:42:42 PM »
Not sure if Cajun Gun Works can supply you with something that works. $69.00 for the sear cage on their website.

Texf6

Offline cammobunker

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 08:30:56 AM »
Gunsmith - I took the pistol to a master gunsmith, he polished and cut the feed ramp and fully cleaned the gun. He thought the long FMJs were having trouble getting into the chamber. He said there was junk behind the extractor. Gun continued to malfunction.

 "Master Gunsmith" my hind foot. It shouldn't be that hard to spot a broken ejector especially with the malfunctions you were seeing. Given that the CZ75 platform is one of the most commonly produced handguns in the world, you would think a "master gunsmith" would be, you know, somewhat familiar with them, at least enough to notice the ejector being broken off . I was reading your first post thinking "ejector" and sure enough, but I'm not a "master gunsmith". He should not be seeing any more of your business. I bet he charged you good money to cut your feed ramp (unnecessarily) and throw your pistol in an ultrasonic cleaner, too. Sounds like one of those 1911 smiths that bill themselves as high end pistolsmiths but don't know anything that isn't in the 1911 shop manual.
Stick around, and we'll help you out. There are some very, very talented and knowledgeable folks here who can walk you through whatever you need (or want) to do.  I think you're going to find the CZ platform addictive, so you'll probably wind up with more of them. :)

Offline 59cummins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 09:30:41 PM »
Not sure if Cajun Gun Works can supply you with something that works. $69.00 for the sear cage on their website.

Texf6

I just saw this...I shelled out the money at Numrich already though.

Gunsmith - I took the pistol to a master gunsmith, he polished and cut the feed ramp and fully cleaned the gun. He thought the long FMJs were having trouble getting into the chamber. He said there was junk behind the extractor. Gun continued to malfunction.

 "Master Gunsmith" my hind foot. It shouldn't be that hard to spot a broken ejector especially with the malfunctions you were seeing. Given that the CZ75 platform is one of the most commonly produced handguns in the world, you would think a "master gunsmith" would be, you know, somewhat familiar with them, at least enough to notice the ejector being broken off . I was reading your first post thinking "ejector" and sure enough, but I'm not a "master gunsmith". He should not be seeing any more of your business. I bet he charged you good money to cut your feed ramp (unnecessarily) and throw your pistol in an ultrasonic cleaner, too. Sounds like one of those 1911 smiths that bill themselves as high end pistolsmiths but don't know anything that isn't in the 1911 shop manual.
Stick around, and we'll help you out. There are some very, very talented and knowledgeable folks here who can walk you through whatever you need (or want) to do.  I think you're going to find the CZ platform addictive, so you'll probably wind up with more of them. :)

The guy has been good to me before working on my "pre-81" Browning BLR...that is a fairly complicated rifle. And yeah I guess a broken extractor should have stood out...but I should have noticed it too. He just works for himself, cash only and his rates are much more reasonable than any smith I've found in a gun shop. Gonna need some more help with this gun...

Offline 59cummins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 09:35:26 PM »
Ok an update on the BTA90. I got the part in and installed it thanks to some good YouTube videos from "Memphis Mechanic." However once I got the whole gun back together I noticed a problem: I cannot pull the slide back the whole way...it looks like it needs to go back a quarter inch more. The third picture shows how far back the slide will go...about a quarter inch from the slide lock engaging its notch. The first two pics is my newly installed ejector. Trigger seems to be functioning fine. Thoughts?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c0bGufECvc5UpqG6n_-4k7XmXp8H3tCD4tEjfWStGrY/edit#gid=0

Offline 59cummins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 06:57:24 PM »
Took the gun apart and put it back together. Same issue. Thoughts on what could be hanging up the slide?

Offline jwc007

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7394
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2018, 06:31:53 PM »
Took the gun apart and put it back together. Same issue. Thoughts on what could be hanging up the slide?

Sorry, I really would have to see that Pistol to figure that one out.
"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda


For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline 59cummins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: BTA90 Reliability Issues
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2018, 09:27:48 PM »
Well I got to thinking...what is a gun smith gonna do that this thing? So I busted out the dremel and took a little off the sides of the ejector where it looked to be catching. Slide goes the whole way back now! I should get home from work on Thursday before it's dark so I will take it out back and crack off a few rounds to confirm everything is working.