Author Topic: Loading coated bullets  (Read 803 times)

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Offline Zigzag

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Loading coated bullets
« on: January 12, 2018, 07:32:46 PM »
Just got a CZ 75 shadow2 and have had a little trouble with coated bullets. They are seated at 1.09 and are from eggelston. A few get stuck and don't eject. Never had that issue with my beretta and haven't run any factory ammo through it yet. Any suggestions?

Offline painter

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 07:35:22 PM »
Don't eject after firing, or before when you manually rack the slide?
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.

Offline MadDuner

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 07:37:35 PM »
What is the recipe?
Powder grains, OAL of 1.09, what weight projectile?

Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 10:47:43 PM »
What do they push test at?

Offline nicky

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 03:58:46 AM »
Is it only with coated Bullets?

We need details. We need details, We need ..........

Offline MadDuner

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 08:56:38 AM »
Everybody wants to help, but none of us are psychic.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 09:00:18 AM »
Ziggy -
► First things first...
Welcome Aboard !

► On to your question... It doesn't matter what your OAL is if the barrel can't accept it. CZ freebores in the 9mm guns tend to run a little tight, so the chambers do much better with RN and SWC than any type of conical ogive (like an XTP). So the first thing to do is read this....

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0

Then, realizing that lead bullets typically run larger diameter than plated or jacketed bullets means you're going to need to remove some of the diameter of the "test bullet" so its dia is closer to 0.355". This is so that you can truly differentiate between sensing the bullet's ogive position versus sensing the bullet's diameter.

The diagrams in the thread above will make things much clearer for you.

► Realize that "coating" the bullet doesn't make it magic. As with ANY lead bullet, "fit is king". So you're going to need a bullet that is at least 0.001" larger than the bore in order to avoid other side effects of shooting lead bullets. This is far more important in 9mm than it is in, say, 38 Spcl or 45ACP becasue the velocities are higher. But we can talk about this more.

Hope this helps.   ;)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 09:14:07 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline Zigzag

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2018, 08:23:46 PM »
3.6 tite group on the 124 grains and 4.0 on the 115.  The diameter of both are .356 and all are seated at 1.09. I don't remember offhand where I had the crimp set it still where I set it for extreme plated. I've only had this CZ a few weeks and haven't run any factory ammo thru it yet. These coated bullets have truncated point and I think that's part of the issue and I realize this gun has tighter fit to it but I'm still learning the ins and outs of hand loading

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2018, 08:59:31 PM »
Read the post on how to determine max OAL for a pistol that Wobbly.  You can't just load to whatever and expect it to work with all bullets in all pistols.  1.09 is too long for your pistol with those bullets.  It's that simple.

I do not personally remove anything from a coated lead bullet to check max OAL.  If you can't find a fired case that will allow it to slide in and out easily enough (I'm talking about the method in the post Wobbly linked to here), you can also make a dummy round (size, expand, seat, crimp, but no primer or powder) make it so that it's too long (you already know 1.09 is too long, so you could start there), plunk it in your chamber, shorten it, plunk it again, shorten it, and so on and so on until it plunks and spins freely.  If you shorten it .003-.005 at a time, there will come a point where it plunks all the way in, but when you try to spin it, it will drag a little.  That would be when you're almost there.  Once it is short enough to spin freely, that's your max OAL, and knock off another .010 - .015 to account for normal variation in loading.  Don't be surprised if those have to be loaded down to 1.08, 1.07, 1.06, or maybe even a couple hundredths shorter than that.  I've seen some people lately with truncated cone bullets that had to be loaded down to 1.04.

Good luck.  ;)

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2018, 08:59:41 PM »
Here's a cartoon to help explain....



CZ intended for you to be shooting a bullet ogive shape like the example in the center. The RN misses the lands of the rifling AND misses touching the freebore.

You said you are using a "truncated" ogive, and by that I guess you mean a truncated cone, like an XTP. These are problematic becasue the full dia protrudes out of the case. The full diameter then might collide with the beginning of the rifling, as in the left hand example. AND with a lead bullet will probably "hug" the freebore as well, which is why I advised you to get the bullet's diameter down to 0.355". Only then you will you be able to differentiate between freebore "hugging" (not so bad), and colliding with the rifling (very bad).

Additionally, becasue the 9mm incorporates a tapered cartridge fitting into a tapered bore, the diameter of the taper crimp becomes one of the items that is extraordinarily important. That's "extraordinarily important" as in mission critical, must-have information, do not pass GO, do not go any further until you verify that the taper crimp is indeed 0.379" or smaller. This becasue sloppy taper crimp work mimics the bullet hitting the rifling and you cannot see inside the chamber to tell which it is. Therefore the only way to go forward is to rule it out by knowing exactly what the taper crimp diameter is.

So you need to stop right here and read this...
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=78873.0

Some parts of reloading are Art, and some are Science. This part is Science, so you must have your numbers right or it's not going to work. No guessing allowed.
 
Hope this helps.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 09:08:36 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline Wobbly

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 09:17:31 PM »
...I don't remember offhand where I had the crimp set it still where I set it for Extreme plated.


► I contend that the taper crimp is set so as to satisfy the requirements of the barrel, not the bullet. Therefore, once it's set, it's set for all bullets. But you still have to know exactly what that setting is.

► This information should be recorded in your reloading notebook. How are you going to know if your Taper Crimp Die wanders away from its current setting if you don't record the setting ?

 ;)
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Offline IDescribe

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2018, 09:27:21 PM »
► I contend that the taper crimp is set so as to satisfy the requirements of the barrel, not the bullet.

Agreed. 

I personally DO adjust it a little based on bullet diameter, but it's not necessary. 

SAAMI spec is .380, and .379, even .378, is large enough for any diameter bullet you might be using while you're learning.  You wouldn't hurt anything to set it to .378 and be done with it during the early stages of your reloading journey.  ;)

Offline MadDuner

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 11:12:24 PM »
When loading the Blue bullets - I had to back off on the crimp slightly to stop it from cutting through the polymer coating. 

Has anybody else seen that?

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2018, 05:09:13 AM »
Blue bullets are undersized for Lead.  You were ovecrimping.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Loading coated bullets
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2018, 11:56:01 PM »
Blue bullets are undersized for Lead.  You were over-crimping.


Most probably.
In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
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