Author Topic: S/A Trigger pre-travel screw  (Read 16955 times)

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Offline redlightrich

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S/A Trigger pre-travel screw
« on: January 26, 2018, 10:09:45 AM »
Hi all, I have a few questions, as I prepare to drill my aluminum CZ SAO trigger for a pre-travel adjustment screw.

I have noticed that most places that sell either replacement type, or modded original SAO triggers drill the pre-travel screw hole at an angle. Why is this? I have an 85C old style, which has this hole at a 90 degree angle to the area of the trigger that contacts the frame. This keeps the screw parallel to the frame. I also notice, that by holding the trigger fully rearward, there is a way to access the adjustment (if the adjustment portion was presented outward) .

Before I drill the SAO trigger, I was hoping someone could explain the benefit of the angle.

Also, if there is indeed a benefit, does anyone know how many degrees it is angled at ( maybe take your kids protractor :-) , Do kids in school still use them?

I usually search before asking, but maybe my search skills are weak?

Thank you as always for the great input I get here!!!

Rich

Offline redlightrich

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Re: S/A Trigger pre-travel screw
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 10:24:42 AM »
By the way, I forgot to mention, this is for a 75B SS, which of course started as a DA/SA, and I am converting to SAO for use as a target pistol, if that makes a difference.

Rich

Offline redlightrich

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Re: S/A Trigger pre-travel screw
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2018, 10:16:09 AM »
For the sake of someone searching in the future, I will answer my own question. I temporarily installed the SAO trigger to understand and measure.
It appears that due to the difference in the way the top portion of the CZ 9 dollar aluminum trigger is shaped, if the pre-travel screw was not angled, you would be forced to disassemble the trigger for any adjustments.
When assembled, the SAO trigger will not move rearward enough to allow for a reasonable access to the set screw. Adding angle to the screw will allow the set screw to be accessed with the trigger fully rearward.

Once I finish this project, I will provide details on angle and so on.

Due to the angle of the cut, an end mill bit would be the best method to cut, if you are working from the face of the trigger rearward.

As I said, I will provide details when I finish.

Rich

Offline MoRivera

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Re: S/A Trigger pre-travel screw
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2018, 10:59:54 AM »
Interesting analysis.  Look forward to more details.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: S/A Trigger pre-travel screw
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2018, 11:08:07 AM »
You beat me to that answer.
David/CGW drilled and tapped my 75B trigger for my DA/SA trigger  "short reach mod."  Part of the mod. eliminates most of the reset overtravel.
Access to the screw for adjustment is determined by the angle the screw hex head. I made a short hex wrench that turns between thumb and index finger for easy adjustments/removals/installs.

Offline redlightrich

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Update
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2018, 10:08:38 AM »
Hello all, just an update for future searchers. There are 2 ways to skin this cat. One is mill thru the trigger face at an angle. You can start with a .100 end mill for good results, then finish to final size.  A 3mm set screw is correct or a 6-32 will do. The factory hole for overtravel is 3mm. so I recommend 3mm on pre as well. Some local hardware stores will have the 6-32, but not the 3mm x.5 pitch needed, which is why I mention both.
Another method, is to flip the trigger and use a drill press from the back side. You will find that the inside of the trigger is angled in such a way, that when drilling a set screw, it will provide the correct angle when drilling straight down. Just be sure to be careful and project it's patch, so it is in the right place when it comes thru the trigger face.

All in all, just paying one of our great suppliers 30 dollars is probably the best method, unless you see this as a hobby, or your time has no real value. The trigger is 9 dollars, then if you buy an end mill you are near 30 for that, so you are at 39, then a tap for 4 or 5 dollars, then a set screw for .50. So if everything goes well you are at 43.50.

Now, you can drill, so a number drill bit ( based on which tap you will use) is 3 dollars, then a tap 4 dollars, then a set screw, brings the total to about 16.50 plus say an hour of time ( measurements, drilling, tapping and so on. If you make a mistake, each time the cost goes up by 9 dollars and shipping.

This is why I say it is best to pay the 30 dollars to our suppliers. If you have all the tools and equipment, you may, (like me) view it differently.

Now for the usefulness. On my 75B SS, the SA trigger exhibits some pre-travel, but almost no over-travel, even without an over travel screw installed. The over travel is almost concerning, as I am trying to determine if it lifts the sear enough to fully clear the hooks. It is close for sure. To add a hair more over travel, you would need to file or sand the rear of the trigger where it hits the frame. This can be the tolerance of my particular gun, but that is how it is working out. No perceivable over travel even without the set screw installed.

The pre travel screw, as it is currently, only offers a little adjustment before the trigger will not reset. So as a standard 75B, you can't use it to eliminate pre-travel.  Again, this is on my specific 75B SS, which I do believe is all over spec wise.
You can use it to slightly reduce pre travel.
My next move is to install the FPB spacer, and eliminate this feature, just to see how much adjustment can be had at that point.  I use this gun as a Kadet often, so if removing the FPB allows me to remove almost or all pre-travel, I may keep it as a dedicated Kadet. If not, then I see little value to the SAO only trigger.  Keep in mind, the trigger I use prior to the SA, is the CGW old style 85c trigger, in which the curve is greatly reduced to almost a "target" type trigger.

Also, as a side note, the SAO trigger itself from CZ is not the same quality as the standard trigger.  Looking at the top where the trigger pin goes thru, and the trigger bar rides, and comparing this to a factory steel trigger, you will see what I mean. It appears to be a 2 dollar part that was painted flat black. 9 dollars is probably more than it is worth. It is the first time I felt a CZ part was not of robust design.



I will report back

Thank you

Rich






Offline redlightrich

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Update, 1911 Rival !!!
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2018, 09:44:32 AM »
HEllo all, I realize I may have presented this as less than stellar at first.
2 clarifications. First, the 9 dollar trigger can be made to fit/work properly. You may either need to shim or tweak the upper mounting ears.
2nd, the overtravel screw does have a value. Using a bright light, I found that I can use the screw to further limit overtravel without the sear scraping on the hammer hooks. I will say, even without the overtravel screw, overtravel is small.

Next is the real beauty, the pretravel screw. It has little value when using the stock FPB cam. I used a 5 dollar CZC FPB spacer, and reset happens much quicker.
I measured pre-travel in the MIDDLE of the trigger, as I wanted a parallel surface to measure against on the trigger guard, so the total number will be greater at the bottom or full length of the trigger.

I set it at .019, yes 19 thousandths. I could have dropped it even further, but I opted for an audible reset.
Also, as stated in a previous post, just installing the SA trigger lowered pull weight over 8oz. I believe this is due to greater leverage on the bottom of the SA trigger.

So in closing, I have bought some items such as a
CGW RP TRS  7.00
GCW floating trigger pin 13.00
Wolff 17# Mainspring     4.00
CZC Shadow Narrowed hammer 45.00
CZ Sear 18.00  ( the original sear had 3k rounds, so I decided new hammer new sear)
CZ SA Trigger 9.00
Set screw .50
CZC FPB spacer 5.00
CZ Pin 2.00 ( strut to hammer)
I also invested a lot of time, and did a fair amount of polishing and tweaking.
So for 103.50, I have a trigger that is a tick under 2#, and breaks clean as the proverbial glass rod. It rivals my best 1911.
When I first started being interested in CZ's I didn't believe it would be possible, but it is true.
Yes the 1911 pulls straight back, and the CZ moves in an arc ( although, now a very tiny arc) but it really is terrific.

If I wanted to cheap out, I could probably save 20 dollars by re-using the stock trigger pin ( depends on how cleanly it comes out, and used washers to space the sear.. I could also have re-used the hammer/strut pin ( came out clean)

There you have it.

Caution, this is a RANGE ONLY gun,. In it's current configuration, I would NOT recommend it as a carry or self defense weapon.

Rich

Offline Underwhere

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Re: S/A Trigger pre-travel screw
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 09:48:27 AM »
nice summary.
I use the SAO triggers supplied by CGW and found that the angles are very useful for adjustment while in-gun.
And I like these triggers better than my 1911 triggers when paired with the CGW race hammer and sear.