Author Topic: +P+ Load in a PCR  (Read 654 times)

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Photobill

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+P+ Load in a PCR
« on: February 06, 2018, 02:35:49 PM »
Recently a lot of nut cases for lack of a better word have been wearing body armor. I recently checked out Underwood Extreme Defense 90gr +P+ ammo. MV is 1550 and Eng 435. I spoke to CZ they said (a salesman) said no. But I also spoke to CGW and they said it could handle it. Not as a steady diet but only a few rounds to test and then only for SD if some nut is wearing armor.

My question is, has anyone with a PCR only, have tried it? If so, what is your feed back on it for recoil versus standard or +P ammo?

Thanks for your feedback.

Bill

Offline FN in MT

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 06:33:44 PM »
As an old Armorer....I have seldom been a fan of +P+ in any 9mm. Too much pressure in a platform generally not designed for such pressures. Certainly not a steady diet.

Want more...buy a .357 sig.

Regarding bad guys with vests.... Hearts and Minds my friend....hearts and minds.  Two shots center mass...NO reaction...one to the head.

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 07:06:13 PM »
If they hypothetical bad guy is wearing body armor and it's a quality unit then a handgun is going to be a poor choice and if the bad guy has a chest plate then what?
I guess I just don't sit around worrying about this sort of thing as much as some. I practice often with my weapon and ammo of choice and hope to never have to do more than practice. Practice does include going for the head shot though. No body armor there.

Photobill

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2018, 07:32:09 PM »
Well since we don't walk around carrying a rifle, I guess a PCR will have to do in a pinch. The shooter in the movie theater was wearing body armor. The recent Chinese guy arrested with an auto rifle, looking to buy 5,000 rounds of ammo and was looking to buy body armor off the net. What do you think he was up to?

Lets see, head shot on a moving target at a distance that is shooting back. Yeah that sounds doable...
Now being realistic, a body shot is your best chance. I don't expect to ever have to make that shot (but I could. I have a red dot on my PCR too), but I also never expected a guy to try and break into my home one night while my family was sleeping. Never expected a guy to break into my truck in my driveway, while he was carrying a gun he just stole from someone else truck. But things happen.

So as I live in Houston where a lot of things go down, I like to be prepared carring a extra back up mag of +P+ ammo.  As far a training, I dry fire with a laser cartridge every day, live fire 150 rounds every week on an outdoor range. Not just shooting paper targets straight ahead which is a waste of time. And as a vet from Vietnam, I've had guys shoot back, Not a lot of fun...

So bottom line, just looking for feedback from someone that has shot a +P+ round in a PCR. Looking for exact experience in that gun only please.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2018, 09:09:14 PM »
FWIW:  +P+ is not a valid indication of anything.  The velocity listed from the manufacturer is an indicator,  but NOT a measure of the pressures developed in your pistol's chamber.

If you read the stickies about suitable ammo for 9mm CZs a wider description of the SAAMI pressure limits  is explained.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=14691.0

As said,  your pistol may be okay for some number of shots with overpressure cartridges;  but what's the gain vs the risk?  Many +P or even standard pressure SD cartridges show excellent performance with extensive testing by numerous reliable sources.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 09:16:12 PM by 1SOW »

Photobill

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2018, 10:03:33 PM »
As I have tried to explain, I know all the info about the standards. I am only seeking feedback from someone that may have already used a +P+ round in a PCR. Otherwise please save your comments.

CGW has told me it is ok on a limited basis which is all it would be used.


Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 05:16:36 AM »
As I have tried to explain, I know all the info about the standards. I am only seeking feedback from someone that may have already used a +P+ round in a PCR. Otherwise please save your comments.

CGW has told me it is ok on a limited basis which is all it would be used.

I have fired my own +P loads in my PCR and the recoil is no big deal. I can shoot full power magnum revolvers without issue and the hottest 9mm is still a mouse in comparison. The PCR showed no adverse wear after 500 rnds of hot loads but there was no sense in pounding the gun with them either since they were neither more accurate and the extra velocity just isn't going to accomplish anything in a normal situation. If a .38 spl or 9mm is not enough then hot rodding either one is not enough. If more gun is called for then that's the answer.
By the way you post a question like this you will get comments and opinions. If that's not acceptable then you should do your own "quiet" research. Remember YOU asked.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 06:15:05 AM by SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM »

Online Earl Keese

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 07:27:54 AM »
I have trouble understanding the "need" to load a cartridge beyond it's design capabilities. Why not just buy a 10mm, 357sig, or a Five-seveN?

Photobill

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 10:30:04 AM »
Earl,

Because I already have a PCR and don't want a different gun.

Online Earl Keese

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 10:41:56 AM »
Earl,

Because I already have a PCR and don't want a different gun.
I get that, but your gun & ammo wasn't designed for your intended purpose. They aren't even remotely suited for that purpose.

Photobill

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 10:43:39 AM »
 CGW says it could handle it in a pinch but not as a steady diet.

Offline HST

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2018, 11:28:03 AM »

My carry round of choice is Extreme Defender plus p 90 grain  for carry in my P 10C and 90 grain standard in my Glock 43.   
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 08:06:01 AM by HST »
P 10
75 B SAO
Browning Hi Power
G 43
Colt 1911 70 series

Offline Grendel

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2018, 11:31:43 AM »
OP has flounced off with his PCR. Didn't like the place enough I guess. Still good info for the adults among us.
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus

Inter arma enim silent leges - Cicero

I wasn't born in America, but I got here as fast as I could.

Offline armoredman

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2018, 01:25:58 AM »
I will say, even though OP has gone bye-bye, +P+ is not a SAAMI standard, but a made up designation that manufacturers use for any load that goes beyond the standard of +P. I also would not use +P+ ammo for that reason, but will stay within top name defensive loads from reputable makers. Some are +P from the factory, some aren't, and they all work. 
Body armor does present it's own issues, and one thing we will not delve into here is how to penetrate body armor, as we have many LEO here, and I myself wear armor at work. No bueno. What I would state is follow what used to be called the Mozambique technique, 2 to the body one to the head for any assailant you have the legal right to use deadly force to stop their unlawful assault. Hmm, that reads like a lawyer wrote it...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 10:00:37 PM by armoredman »

Offline HST

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Re: +P+ Load in a PCR
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 08:07:23 AM »
Sorry about that , i edited my post and agree with you wholeheartedly.
P 10
75 B SAO
Browning Hi Power
G 43
Colt 1911 70 series

 

anything