How do you think about bullet weights in 9mm?

[Commo]

Coming from .45 ACP reloading on a Dillon 550B -- as I move into reloading 9mm for the first time could you give your thoughts on the common bullet weights (115, 124 and 147 grain?)

I'm most likely to go with the middle ground 124 JHP/THP sort of round for general range shooting and potential IPDA-type classes, etc. These will be used in my new CZ 75 Compact. I will be ordering in the conversion kit and dies I need for the Dillon this week, and would like to find a safe bullet to start with and order a 1,000 of them...

To get started I'm shooting 500 124 gr THP remanufactured rounds from Fenix Ammunition near me in Novi, MI. I've had a couple FTFs with them in the 255 rounds I've shot so far in two sessions at the indoor range.

I've had good luck with Precision Delta 230 gr FMJs and Missouri Bullet Co 200 SWCs in my .45 reloading, so I'm looking at the PD 124 JHP, the newish RMR 124 gr offering, the X-Treme plated 124 JHP, etc...

Is there really much difference in the recoil feel among the three common weights? I see people describing 115 gr loads as more 'snappy' for instance.

Thanks!

Commo

[tbonham]

Coming from .45 ACP reloading on a Dillon 550B -- as I move into reloading 9mm for the first time could you give your thoughts on the common bullet weights (115, 124 and 147 grain?)

I'm most likely to go with the middle ground 124 JHP/THP sort of round for general range shooting and potential IPDA-type classes, etc. These will be used in my new CZ 75 Compact. I will be ordering in the conversion kit and dies I need for the Dillon this week, and would like to find a safe bullet to start with and order a 1,000 of them...

To get started I'm shooting 500 124 gr THP remanufactured rounds from Fenix Ammunition near me in Novi, MI. I've had a couple FTFs with them in the 255 rounds I've shot so far in two sessions at the indoor range.

I've had good luck with Precision Delta 230 gr FMJs and Missouri Bullet Co 200 SWCs in my .45 reloading, so I'm looking at the PD 124 JHP, the newish RMR 124 gr offering, the X-Treme plated 124 JHP, etc...

Is there really much difference in the recoil feel among the three common weights? I see people describing 115 gr loads as more 'snappy' for instance.

Thanks!

Commo

I do not reload 9mm but everyone at my range that does use the X-treme 124gr bullets for IDPA. They get around 130pf.

I use the x-trene in my 45ACP and I get them all the way up to 230pf without a problem.

Hope this helps.

Thomas

[Commo]

Thomas, great data points on the X-Tremes -- do you know what bullet profile the 9mm shooters are using? They have RN, HP, FP, etc etc etc...anecdotally it seems that many 9mm shooters find their best accuracy with HP or FP rounds, with fewer using the RN profile..

Thanks,

Commo

[painter]

Be careful when choosing a HP, or FP, bullet for your CZ.

Because of the short freebore some bullets will be unusable.

Before buying in bulk you might want to ask if anyone is using that bullet, and always perform a pushtest with each new bullet to determine a safe working OAL.

[baldrage]

For IDPA, 124 gr works great.

Precision Delta 124 gr JHP are popular in this forum and are $.09 each when you buy 2K.

[Wobbly]

Welcome Aboard !

? To me, 115gr is snappy and sharper on the palms in a full-size pistol. In a compact they might be painful. I guess it's all what you're used to shooting.

? Most of the CZ pistols have their rifling cut for middle-weight 124gr bullets. These are hard to find in factory ammo, but reloaders don't need to worry. Like our pal Baldrage said, the Precision Delta 124gr JHP is a favorite here for accuracy and cost.

? A great many of the 147gr bullets cannot be used in the CZ, because they need to be so deeply seated. So you need to be very careful when you select these. One that always works is the Berry Mfg 147gr RN. These are typically shot with faster powders for reduced recoil, but you'll need a chrono since most of the loads are unlisted.


If you are used to 45ACP, then 9mm is going to take a little more effort and care. You'll use all the 45ACP skills, PLUS some additional ones you'll need to pick up. For one, you'll need to determine your Max OAL, as discussed in the Stickies in this forum.

The 45 is a low pressure cartridge, you can really mess up and still be OK. The 9mm is a high pressure cartridge and a small change in powder OR OAL makes a huge difference. Be very alert !

 

[CPTKILLER]

Essentially find out what your pistol prefers.  The answer in time with various weights and etc., you'll know.

[Commo]

Be careful when choosing a HP, or FP, bullet for your CZ.

Because of the short freebore some bullets will be unusable.

Painter, thanks -- is there an average COL you've found works for your CZs?

The Fenix Ammunition remanufactured 124 gr THPs averaged 1.0566" for 10 -- they seem to feed well though I have had a couple FTFs with them which I'm attributing to new mags, break-in, etc. I believe they are Berry's 124 gr Target Hollow Points. I chrono'd 10 of them with my Labradar chrono and had an average 1072 fps at the muzzle.

Commo

[Commo]

Welcome Aboard !

? To me, 115gr is snappy and sharper on the palms in a full-size pistol. In a compact they might be painful. I guess it's all what you're used to shooting.

? Most of the CZ pistols have their rifling cut for middle-weight 124gr bullets. These are hard to find in factory ammo, but reloaders don't need to worry. Like our pal Baldrage said, the Precision Delta 124gr JHP is a favorite here for accuracy and cost.

? A great many of the 147gr bullets cannot be used in the CZ, because they need to be so deeply seated. So you need to be very careful when you select these. One that always works is the Berry Mfg 147gr RN. These are typically shot with faster powders for reduced recoil, but you'll need a chrono since most of the loads are unlisted.


If you are used to 45ACP, then 9mm is going to take a little more effort and care. You'll use all the 45ACP skills, PLUS some additional ones you'll need to pick up. For one, you'll need to determine your Max OAL, as discussed in the Stickies in this forum.

The 45 is a low pressure cartridge, you can really mess up and still be OK. The 9mm is a high pressure cartridge and a small change in powder OR OAL makes a huge difference. Be very alert !

 

Wobbly, thanks!

I appreciate your making the distinctions between 9mm and .45 ACP as I was probably headed toward treating them the same.

For instance, I use an EGW 7-round chamber checker for all my .45 rounds and intend to get their 9mm chamber checker as well. But it sounds like I really need to double check the plunk-ability in the barrel itself, which I will certainly do.

I'm all for understanding the Max OAL -- for a couple years now I have used the Hornady COL tool in my rifles and it works on the same principle as far as understanding where the lands are and how far back you should be from touching them. My experience in .45 with 200 gr Missouri Bullet Co SWC bullets lead me to really understand where the bullet was touching as they can be 'sticky' in the chamber if you don't calculate that. My Dan Wesson likes the SWCs set at 1.233" for example.

I use the Redding Competition seating dies for my rifles in the Redding press and therefore wanted similar control on the Dillon. The micrometer adjustment allows me to fiddle with the COL very easily. So I will be getting one of those for 9mm too.

I'm a fan of Alliant's BE-86 for .45 and have not yet settled on what powder to use for 9mm, so your thoughts on powder would be appreciated. I'd like to try the newish Sport Pistol, but have the BE-86, TiteGroup, HP-38, CFE Pistol and a bit of Power Pistol on hand..I hear great things about the VihtaVuori powders but haven't tried those yet.

Commo

[painter]

Be careful when choosing a HP, or FP, bullet for your CZ.

Because of the short freebore some bullets will be unusable.

Painter, thanks -- is there an average COL you've found works for your CZs?

The Fenix Ammunition remanufactured 124 gr THPs averaged 1.0566" for 10 -- they seem to feed well though I have had a couple FTFs with them which I'm attributing to new mags, break-in, etc. I believe they are Berry's 124 gr Target Hollow Points. I chrono'd 10 of them with my Labradar chrono and had an average 1072 fps at the muzzle.

Commo

It depends entirely on the bullet profile. That's why it's necessary to check each bullet type/brand with a push test. There's a sticky... http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0

[Dan_69GTX]

Commo - welcome!

I would never trust the OAL listed by someone else - always check with your barrel.

I know it is more expensive and time consuming,  but I'd recommend grabbing a few variations of bullets and see how your gun likes them with different powders.  You probably already know how I can go from a large group to a small group just by changing types of powders and then the amount of powder.

The other advantage is when/if something becomes scarce you already know a good load with other components.

[IDescribe]

Most of the talk you see about bullet weight is about "felt" recoil and what that means to recoil control.  So before I talk about bullet weight, here's something to remember:

Recoil control comes from grip and stance.  Getting the next shot off quickly is a skill to be honed.  So do NOT choose a bullet weight based on it being "softer" with an assumption that it will mean faster. 

That's where all the internet lore you've read with people promoting heavy bullets comes from -- an assumption that softer feeling recoil means faster follow up shots, faster split times.  But faster split times come from the sights settling faster, returning faster to zero.  That might happen with a softer feeling load, or it might not, and when it does, it has nothing to do with the "feel" of the recoil.  That's all much ado about nothing.  99% of the people you've seen post on the benefits of heavier bullets have never used a shot timer to compare their split times with heavier vs lighter bullets to see if those benefits are real or not.  Spoiler alert: it doesn't matter. 

You want a load that feels right to you and moves the pistol in a way that works for you.  AND You want a load that is accurate.  That's it. 

That Precision Delta 124gr JHP is perhaps the best bang for your buck in terms of cost vs performance on the market.  That RMR in-house 124gr JHP "MPR" may very well be its equal -- I don't know -- I haven't loaded it yet.  But when you can get a quality 124gr JHP for around 9 cents per bullet shipped, that's fantastic.   If you are already a fan of Precision Delta, and you're comfortable with Precision Delta, buy 2,000 of those and be done with it -- you get them for 8.9 cents each when you buy 2000 or more.

If you are comfortable loading lead or coated lead and want even better bang for your buck, I'd recommend 124/125gr coated lead bullets from BBI, Precision Bullets, or ACME Bullets, which you can typically get at or a little under 7 cents per  bullet shipped when you buy by the case.

If you want a nice copper wrapping around your lead, choosing plated over Precision Delta or RMR jacketed is a downgrade.  Don't bother.  GO with jacketed.  Jacketed > plated every time.

If you are curious to try heavier bullets,  Missouri Bullet Company makes a 135gr RN intended for .38 Super that is sized .357 (instead of the normal .356), and it loads and shoots beautifully in 9mm in my 75. I believe Wobbly has also used that 135gr .38 Super bullet with good success.  I'd give 135gr a try before 147gr. 

But at the end of the day, I'd buy 2,000 Precision Delta 124gr JHP first. 

[Wobbly]

I appreciate your making the distinctions between 9mm and .45 ACP as I was probably headed toward treating them the same.

For instance, I use an EGW 7-round chamber checker for all my .45 rounds and intend to get their 9mm chamber checker as well. But it sounds like I really need to double check the plunk-ability in the barrel itself, which I will certainly do.

I'm all for understanding the Max OAL -- for a couple years now I have used the Hornady COL tool in my rifles and it works on the same principle as far as understanding where the lands are and how far back you should be from touching them. My experience in .45 with 200 gr Missouri Bullet Co SWC bullets lead me to really understand where the bullet was touching as they can be 'sticky' in the chamber if you don't calculate that. My Dan Wesson likes the SWCs set at 1.233" for example.

I use the Redding Competition seating dies for my rifles in the Redding press and therefore wanted similar control on the Dillon. The micrometer adjustment allows me to fiddle with the COL very easily. So I will be getting one of those for 9mm too.

I'm a fan of Alliant's BE-86 for .45 and have not yet settled on what powder to use for 9mm, so your thoughts on powder would be appreciated. I'd like to try the newish Sport Pistol, but have the BE-86, TiteGroup, HP-38, CFE Pistol and a bit of Power Pistol on hand..I hear great things about the VihtaVuori powders but haven't tried those yet.

Commo -
Forget what you know about reloading for rifle when you reload for pistol. We are NOT setting the OAL so the bullet can get close to the rifling. Instead we are trying to get the bullet seated (generally) 0.200 to 0.250" deep into the case. This method usually shows better results for the same bullet/ same powder combination.

Since cartridge gauges don't have the rifling, you can use one to check many features of the cartridge, but OAL is NOT one of those. For that you need the gun's barrel. You'll soon see that every bullet brand, weight and style return a different Max OAL. So get used to working with your barrel. And get used to keeping good notes !

Per the cartoon below, the Max OAL is just that... the maximum limit as determined by the barrel. You are still free to pick an OAL that is shorter, down to about 1.000". The PD 124gr JHP usually "pushes" to a Max OAL of 1.110". Since that's fairly short, most people chose that as their working OAL, but that's not always the case... especially with RN bullets.



You already have BE-86 and W231/HP-38. Those are 2 powders that work very well in 9mm. You can certainly look for and test others, but I'm fairly conservative and would tell you to try those first before any others in an effort to cut your ordering and stocking.

Hope this helps.

[Commo]

Commo - welcome!

I would never trust the OAL listed by someone else - always check with your barrel.

I know it is more expensive and time consuming,  but I'd recommend grabbing a few variations of bullets and see how your gun likes them with different powders.  You probably already know how I can go from a large group to a small group just by changing types of powders and then the amount of powder.

The other advantage is when/if something becomes scarce you already know a good load with other components.

Absolutely -- one of the most enjoyable aspects of reloading is trying the different variations to refine the load for a specific gun!

Thanks,

Commo

[Commo]

Most of the talk you see about bullet weight is about "felt" recoil and what that means to recoil control. 

...


But at the end of the day, I'd buy 2,000 Precision Delta 124gr JHP first. 

Since I have a feel for the PD bullets I'm inclined to start off as you suggest with the PD 124 gr JHP...2,000 sounds about right! Thanks for the info about recoil; what you say makes a lot of sense!

Commo