Author Topic: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened  (Read 198 times)

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Offline charlestheforth

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I've had this gun for 6 months, the first 4 or so the creep was pretty bad.  Somethings changed about it to where it has started breaking very clean.  I can get it to creep only of I use two hands and very slowly increase the force on the trigger, but if I'm just doing a normal trigger pull it breaks very clean.

Is this something all CZ pistols do after they break in or did I get lucky?  What changed about the gun? 

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2018, 11:48:21 AM »
Some of us polish and customize our guns even before they have broken in to get that smooth clean crisp trigger. What you are seeing is the surfaces slowly wearing in and polishing themselves to which makes the action much smoother on it's own. This can be noticed on just about firearm that is used on a regular basis. Perfectly normal and not a bad thing at all.

Offline Vinny

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Re: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2018, 06:00:38 PM »
Some of us polish and customize our guns even before they have broken in to get that smooth clean crisp trigger. What you are seeing is the surfaces slowly wearing in and polishing themselves to which makes the action much smoother on it's own. This can be noticed on just about firearm that is used on a regular basis. Perfectly normal and not a bad thing at all.
+1
My RAMI BD with 5000 rounds is smooth as buttah! Both DA and SA.
No custom parts or polishing, just lube and choot 'em.
I think it's called a GI trigger job. 
Usually they will smooth out nicely after a couple thousand rounds, but occasionally one won't. IF and then CGW can help. But some prefer to speed up the process.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 06:12:24 PM by Vinny »
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Offline Ruber

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What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2018, 09:49:15 PM »
I think of the cz trigger as having three qualities, grittiness, staginess, and creep, and all are variable from gun to gun.

The grittiness(roughness in the finishing) goes away quickly with clean, lube, shoot, repeat.

The staginess can be caused by tool marks that may smooth out in 5,000 rounds, or not.  This seems to be the most hit and miss with CZ’s in my experience, most being better with a few lemons thrown in there to keep you on your toes.

The creep though is inherent to the design and never really changes over time.  I have had triggers really smooth out, but the sear engagement rarely changes much, especially with such low round counts.  And yes, when they smooth out, you don’t really notice the creep without deliberately looking for it.

Glad you got a good one!

Offline charlestheforth

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Re: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2018, 10:12:10 PM »
And yes, when they smooth out, you don’t really notice the creep without deliberately looking for it.



This is what I dont understand though.  When I took apart/ look at the hammer and sear engagement, to me the creep looks like a property of the geometry of the setup; Those two ledges sliding over eachother. If anything I would think that as those two surfaces polish eachother (by grinding against eachother each trigger pull), the creep would get MORE pronounced since those two faces get sleeker.  The exact opposite has happened, and thats what i dont understand.
In physics theres this property where coefficient of kinetic friction is less than that of static friction. So it takes more force to make a car begin sliding off the road than to keep an already sliding car sliding.  I swear something similar has happened to the hammer/sear setup in this gun.  Before when I applied some force, the hammer would slide across the sear in a very constant manner.  after a few thousand rounds, now those two faces sort of hug eachother until they snap and all slide at once.  It doesnt creep anymore with a realistic trigger pull, only when i pull it in an unnatural way (with a ton of force & super slow)  I dont understand how this has happened simply by them polishing themselves.   

I have another CZ pistol which I was debating on upgrading with a new hammer, but now im curious if I can just polish it in the same way that my rami broke itself in.   

I guess this thread is just a roundabout way of asking how to remove the creep of a CZ trigger without buying a new hammer/sear that have a different geometry.   




Offline Ruber

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Re: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2018, 10:59:29 PM »
I’ll bet if you took some good video and slowed it down, you would see the same amount of creep with both trigger pulls.

Offline charlestheforth

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Re: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2018, 11:26:34 PM »
I’ll bet if you took some good video and slowed it down, you would see the same amount of creep with both trigger pulls.

not sure i understand your point..  Yes there would be a small section of the video where the trigger is moving (past the wall) while the hammer has not yet dropped... But if this is imperceivable in real time isn't this all that matters?

Offline Ruber

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What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2018, 12:10:24 AM »
It doesnt creep anymore with a realistic trigger pull, only when i pull it in an unnatural way (with a ton of force & super slow)
Just saying that creep is still there either way you pull the trigger, just less perceptible with a quicker pull.


I have another CZ pistol which I was debating on upgrading with a new hammer, but now im curious if I can just polish it in the same way that my rami broke itself in.   
If you are happy with the smooth pull, then you would be happy with similar break in, assuming sear and hammer are similar to your RAMI.  Most folks are.

The aftermarket race hammers out there remove a lot of the creep itself and will make the trigger even nicer, but at a cost.  Finding that cost/performance comfort zone is ultimately a personal decision.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 12:15:19 AM by Ruber »

Offline Tok36

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Re: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2018, 12:28:36 AM »
It doesnt creep anymore with a realistic trigger pull, only when i pull it in an unnatural way (with a ton of force & super slow)
Just saying that creep is still there either way you pull the trigger, just less perceptible with a quicker pull.

I must agree with Rubers statement above. The creep is still present with the factory hammer installed. Depending on person and how they pull the trigger it may not be perceptible. This is a win in my book, the less money that you need to spend on upgrades the more you win.
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Offline charlestheforth

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Re: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2018, 03:07:36 AM »
What part of a clean single action trigger leads to the accuracy though?  The crisp break? Or the fact that the hammer drops 0.1ms sooner? 


Offline Tok36

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Re: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2018, 04:21:05 AM »
What part of a clean single action trigger leads to the accuracy though?  The crisp break? Or the fact that the hammer drops 0.1ms sooner?

This is subjective but I would say that those attributes can allow some shooters to more effectively avoid moving the pistol while they are pulling the trigger witch leads to better accuracy. Each shooter can work through trial and error to establish what kind of trigger set up works best to obtain this goal. I am unclear how significant locktime is in a CZ pistol, this is not a topic that i have explored well.
Will work for CZ pics! (including but not limited to all CZ clones)

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: What changed on my rami that after it broke in the trigger creep lessened
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2018, 06:52:32 AM »
What part of a clean single action trigger leads to the accuracy though?  The crisp break? Or the fact that the hammer drops 0.1ms sooner?

None of this or all of this leads to accuracy. Point being if you practice with dedication you can be as accurate with the factory trigger and all it's creep as the guy with the custom fit race hammer and light springs.
My 1st CZ was my 75BD in the late 90's lots of creep in that trigger but I could shoot it worlds better than the 3rd gen S&W's I had at the time because even with the creep the trigger was smooth and the S&W's while crisper were also very heavy and tight.
I understand your questions on how you pull the trigger and perceive the creep.I always noticed the creep in my gun when dry firing and the slower I pulled the trigger the more I could actually see and feel it. Many shooters notice though as I did that during normal live fire phenomenally the creep seemed to not even exist.