Buy new pistol or upgrade P10c?

[Utah Shooter]

I have never really been one who puts a lot of money into a firearm for upgrades when the cost of that could purchase me another pistol or more reloading gear.  My question is should I put more money into the P10c to upgrade it?  I do not find too much wrong with it or things that are lacking.  I would like to upgrade the sights but not sure if it really needs more than that.  I would not mind a stipple job or perhaps a red dot but honestly I have not had either of those before so perhaps I am not sure exactly what I am missing out on. 

What are your opinions? 

[Edward_Teach]

For the thought about sights, well you also mentioned a red dot, yes the whole set up might cost the cost of a new gun, but it is so far beyond worth doing.  But if you are going to do it, do it right.. don't cheap out on the dot or save a few bucks by not adding buis  (also primary machines does a sweet job milling the slides)

Once you use a red dot, learn it, it's like night and day shooting

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[fflmike]

I would never stipple a gun.  It almost destroys the value of said gun.  You can put a Talon Grip on it and get just as good a grip and it is removable.  Whenever I see an ad for a gun that has been stippled, I just move on.  JMHO

[cremaley]

Not a fan of stippling or red dot sights. I spent about $155 on upgrading my P-10 including an HBI flat trigger with 3 pound striker spring, Cajun Gun Works tool steel striker and Gray Guns super black stainless steel guide rod with 15 pound spring. The only thing I have not done yet is to add tritium night sights because I am still trying to decided on which ones I want or If I even want any. My P-10 runs perfectly, no failures to feed or extract, light primer hits or slide failing to lock back after last round is fired. Trigger breaks consistently at 3 pounds 14 ounces with a short take up and quick reset. Accuracy is outstanding. Its probably the best shooting striker fire gun I have ever owned so my advise to you is upgrade your P-10 and don't buy a new gun. You won't be sorry.

[earlan357]

I would never stipple a gun.  It almost destroys the value of said gun.  You can put a Talon Grip on it and get just as good a grip and it is removable.  Whenever I see an ad for a gun that has been stippled, I just move on.  JMHO

I agree that in general stippling adds no more monetary value to a gun than an above ground pool does to a house.  If you have any doubts about keeping the gun, just run Talons.  But it you find yourself shooting a lot in the rain, stippling makes a huge difference even with the blocky texture of the P10c.  Mine reminded me of a twist off beer bottle cap. Plenty sharp when dry, but wet, it still slipped and left my hands raw.  Plus the factory leaves the upper third of the grip slick where my support hand "drumstick" contacts the frame.  I did a diy job that is effective but looks diy.  I'm going to send it to Mac Defense to get prettied up since he did such a great job on my Glocks.



As far as running a dot, a lot of people try it once and hate it.  Generally, it takes a proficient iron sight shooter 500-1000 rounds to unlearn the habit of focusing on the front sight and stare at the target.  New shooters tend to pick it up right away.  Shooters with deteriorating eyesight also see the benefits of the red dot and make the commitment since they can no longer see their irons sights well anyway. 

I hated the first time I ran a red dot.  It felt like I was learning to shoot all over again.  The dot amplifies your mistakes and inefficiencies which irons can mask.  I couldn't find my dot on the draw, it would shake all over the target, I would lose it under recoil, and it felt slower than irons inside of 7-ish yards.  But it did make 25+ yard shots a lot easier.  I picked up a few tips from accomplished red dot shooters.  One was to write a word on the target.  If the letters weren't crystal clear and readable, then you were focusing on the dot instead of the target.  On the draw, if I didn't immediately see my dot, I was taught to freeze my hands/arms/shoulders, and only move my head until I found the dot.  Usually the dot was on or pretty close to the target, my head was simply in the wrong spot.  It took me about a month of shooting before I was able to match and then surpass my shooting with iron sights.

One thing I've noticed with the red dot is that it made me a better iron sight shooter.  The dot allows you to self diagnose when dryfiring, and really helped me cleanup my draw/presentation, trigger control, and grip.  Transitioning back and forth between irons and dot is no problem, like switching between cars with manual and automatic transmissions.

Unlike tritium or fiber optic sights,  red dots can work in all lighting conditions and don't get washed out by a flashlight.  The RMR is built like a tank, and works like a giant charging handle on the slide.  With a battery life of 3-5 years, I just change them once a year on my birthday.  People will bring up fogging/rain for some reason.  I wear eyeglasses every day but nobody tells me to wear contacts because my glasses will fog and get me "kilt in da streetz".  As far as running RMRs in the rain:

https://r13---sn-5uaeznly.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?id=2acca2738b703486&itag=18&source=blogger&pl=20&ei=owSYWrODMsu6_QHL1YfQDg&susc=bl&mime=video/mp4&lmt=1519911892353732&ip=166.177.121.35&ipbits=0&expire=1519940899&sparams=ei,expire,id,ip,ipbits,ipbypass,itag,lmt,mime,mip,mm,mn,ms,mv,pl,source,susc&signature=840AF7DEE851D836D8949CA82421385190FD7F74.6C5113A902037678B29DD6F20822266DFA48F408&key=cms1&cpn=gQoIxd-v-WJy_SVs&c=WEB_EMBEDDED_PLAYER&cver=20180227&redirect_counter=1&rm=sn-q4feee7e&req_id=7987d86b1305a3ee&cms_redirect=yes&ipbypass=yes&mip=174.206.20.65&mm=31&mn=sn-5uaeznly&ms=au&mt=1519912044&mv=m&ir=1&rr=12

[fflmike]

LOL, at my age I tend to run from shooting in the rain and playing golf in the rain.  That happens when you're old.  Rainy weather makes me spend more money on upgrades, LOL

[s0nspark]

I would never stipple a gun.  It almost destroys the value of said gun.  You can put a Talon Grip on it and get just as good a grip and it is removable.  Whenever I see an ad for a gun that has been stippled, I just move on.  JMHO

Well... that depends entirely on how one defines "value."

If value is simply resale value then, sure, you have a point.

That is not at all how I ascribe value to pistols I use, though. Value in that case is what kind of benefit I get from the upgrades/mods as a shooter. Collectible/heirloom guns are, of course, another story... but those are not for using.

Also, to say you get just as good a grip with Talon grips as a quality stippling job, also, implies a certain level of "grippiness" is sufficient for you - from my experience, that mean grippiness on the lower to mid-level of the spectrum. The texturing on the P-10c from the factory is considered by many to be too aggressive - for me it is ok but not as aggressive as I would prefer for a serious use gun. On the P-07/P-09 it is another story entirely - those guns are almost as slick as a Gen 3 Glock. Get them wet and it's like shooting buttered bananas!

In fairness, I would be very picky about buying a stippled or modded gun. I would want to who did the work. I have certain standards and preferences that pretty much always steer me to buying new or nearly stock used and then putting the work into them that I want from people I trust to to do the work right. It would depend on the use case I had for the gun, though. Fun guns have a much more lenient standard to satisfy

Bottom line for me, though, is that I do not buy guns with the intention of ever selling them - I buy them as tools or toys to use and keep. I view money put into upgrades in much the same way that I view ammo costs - they are part of the expense of actually running the gun.

[s0nspark]

Once you use a red dot, learn it, it's like night and day shooting

TRUTH!

[s0nspark]

The dot amplifies your mistakes and inefficiencies which irons can mask.  I couldn't find my dot on the draw, it would shake all over the target, I would lose it under recoil, and it felt slower than irons inside of 7-ish yards.  But it did make 25+ yard shots a lot easier.  I picked up a few tips from accomplished red dot shooters.  One was to write a word on the target.  If the letters weren't crystal clear and readable, then you were focusing on the dot instead of the target.  On the draw, if I didn't immediately see my dot, I was taught to freeze my hands/arms/shoulders, and only move my head until I found the dot.  Usually the dot was on or pretty close to the target, my head was simply in the wrong spot.  It took me about a month of shooting before I was able to match and then surpass my shooting with iron sights.

One thing I've noticed with the red dot is that it made me a better iron sight shooter.  The dot allows you to self diagnose when dryfiring, and really helped me cleanup my draw/presentation, trigger control, and grip.  Transitioning back and forth between irons and dot is no problem, like switching between cars with manual and automatic transmissions.

Excellent points, Earl... I've certainly seen as much benefit in dry fire with an RMR as I do in live fire.

[Bigspur84]

For the thought about sights, well you also mentioned a red dot, yes the whole set up might cost the cost of a new gun, but it is so far beyond worth doing.  But if you are going to do it, do it right.. don't cheap out on the dot or save a few bucks by not adding buis  (also primary machines does a sweet job milling the slides)

Once you use a red dot, learn it, it's like night and day shooting

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

What red dot are you running on that gun, it looks very easy to see.  I shot about 500 rounds though my P-10 and my eyes are starting to get old on me and outside of a little to much uptake on the trigger I had a lot of problems picking up the iron sights.  Besides those issues I love the way the gun shoots.

[Utah Shooter]

Thanks all.  I definitely was going to use talon grips before I had it stippled.  I do understand the pro's and con's of that debate. 

Pretty much what I am looking at is upgrading the P10c or getting a Glock 19.  I have put probably 500 rounds though the CZ in the last month, and love the feel but I am really thinking of getting proficient at pistol shooing.  I guess putting more time and bullets through the P10 is probably the way to go. 

Heck if I upgrade the internals now and save my money I bet I am in the same boat I am in now in another month.  Guess upgrading would be the best course of action.   

[s0nspark]

Pretty much what I am looking at is upgrading the P10c or getting a Glock 19.  I have put probably 500 rounds though the CZ in the last month, and love the feel but I am really thinking of getting proficient at pistol shooing.  I guess putting more time and bullets through the P10 is probably the way to go.

Totally agree. Focus on one gun for a year and I bet you?ll be amazed at your progress, especially if you include plenty of quality dry fire.

[fflmike]

I would never stipple a gun.  It almost destroys the value of said gun.  You can put a Talon Grip on it and get just as good a grip and it is removable.  Whenever I see an ad for a gun that has been stippled, I just move on.  JMHO

Well... that depends entirely on how one defines "value."

If value is simply resale value then, sure, you have a point.

That is not at all how I ascribe value to pistols I use, though. Value in that case is what kind of benefit I get from the upgrades/mods as a shooter. Collectible/heirloom guns are, of course, another story... but those are not for using.

Also, to say you get just as good a grip with Talon grips as a quality stippling job, also, implies a certain level of "grippiness" is sufficient for you - from my experience, that mean grippiness on the lower to mid-level of the spectrum. The texturing on the P-10c from the factory is considered by many to be too aggressive - for me it is ok but not as aggressive as I would prefer for a serious use gun. On the P-07/P-09 it is another story entirely - those guns are almost as slick as a Gen 3 Glock. Get them wet and it's like shooting buttered bananas!

In fairness, I would be very picky about buying a stippled or modded gun. I would want to who did the work. I have certain standards and preferences that pretty much always steer me to buying new or nearly stock used and then putting the work into them that I want from people I trust to to do the work right. It would depend on the use case I had for the gun, though. Fun guns have a much more lenient standard to satisfy

Bottom line for me, though, is that I do not buy guns with the intention of ever selling them - I buy them as tools or toys to use and keep. I view money put into upgrades in much the same way that I view ammo costs - they are part of the expense of actually running the gun.

I actually agree with everything you said, but I have never been a fan of stippling.  I have always considered it to be kind of like defacing property.  I like Talon grips because they are removable.  I also pretty much like new or lightly used stock guns and if I find out quickly that I do not like a gun, I sell it.  If I like it, I consider upgrading it to my liking and keep it.   Case in point, I bought an HK P30 and thought it felt great in my hand, liked the way it looked, but went to shoot it and in 20 shots I almost had a blister on my finger from the raised portion of the trigger guard.  Sold it and bought my P10C and never looked back.  Now my upgraded P-07 is my favorite gun even over my Sigs and 1911's.

[s0nspark]

I actually agree with everything you said, but I have never been a fan of stippling.  I have always considered it to be kind of like defacing property.  I like Talon grips because they are removable.  I also pretty much like new or lightly used stock guns and if I find out quickly that I do not like a gun, I sell it.  If I like it, I consider upgrading it to my liking and keep it.   Case in point, I bought an HK P30 and thought it felt great in my hand, liked the way it looked, but went to shoot it and in 20 shots I almost had a blister on my finger from the raised portion of the trigger guard.  Sold it and bought my P10C and never looked back.  Now my upgraded P-07 is my favorite gun even over my Sigs and 1911's.

I had a couple of VP9s that I devoted a year to shooting exclusively... nice guns (I had always wanted an HK) but I grew to dislike the paddle mag release and the gun just never really settled into my hands for some reason.

I replaced the HKs with P-07s and spent a good while with them before deciding on upgrades. That was almost 3 years ago and I only just recently took the plunge with having them stippled. I?ve wanted to have it done for a while now but waited until I was absolutely sure of my commitment to the P-07 platform.

[Edward_Teach]

For the thought about sights, well you also mentioned a red dot, yes the whole set up might cost the cost of a new gun, but it is so far beyond worth doing.  But if you are going to do it, do it right.. don't cheap out on the dot or save a few bucks by not adding buis  (also primary machines does a sweet job milling the slides)

Once you use a red dot, learn it, it's like night and day shooting

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

What red dot are you running on that gun, it looks very easy to see.  I shot about 500 rounds though my P-10 and my eyes are starting to get old on me and outside of a little to much uptake on the trigger I had a lot of problems picking up the iron sights.  Besides those issues I love the way the gun shoots.

This is a Trijicon RMR it's the RM07 (6.5 moa adjustable)