Red dot on a 75 compact

[bpnkrtn]

I (think) I would like to have a red dot on my PCR.  My preference would be to have the slide milled for a specific red dot ... thinking about the Vortex Viper ... but somewhat flexible.  I know there are several rear dovetail mounts for the compacts but, so far, I have not seen/heard of milling on a PCR or P-01.  Any information is appreciated, especially pictures!

[EdMGardner]

Just curious why you wouldn't find something like this, that would not require irreversibly machining your slide, satisfactory?

https://shop.springerprecision.com/product.sc;jsessionid=0B356586687147CEBAEA509582E3E151.p3plqscsfapp001?productId=261

[bpnkrtn]

Just curious why you wouldn't find something like this, that would not require irreversibly machining your slide, satisfactory?

https://shop.springerprecision.com/product.sc;jsessionid=0B356586687147CEBAEA509582E3E151.p3plqscsfapp001?productId=261

I have found (for me anyway) that the lower the red dot sits the easier/quicker it is for me to pick it up.  Most of my learning has been on S&W M&Ps: in terms of better/quicker I have found a Vortex Viper (milled) > Trijicon RMR (milled) > Viper/RNR on CORE plates > Deltapoint-Pro on special plate > RMR on a dovetail mount.  A much simpler way to say it is the Lower the red dot the faster/better it seems to work for me. However, I have to admit that my admiration/obsession/appreciation for the PCR/P-01 combined with my need (old eyes) just may drive me to a dovetail mount IF the slides just do not lend themselves to milling ... but I'd bitch about it 

[M1A4ME]

Had my wife's CZ 75 Compact milled for a DP Pro by Primary Machine.  They also installed the taller front sight and cerakoted the slide.  At one point I think they had stopped milling for DP Pros due to those sights running out of elevation range and not being able to get POI to POA.  Didn't hear of any issues with the RMRs.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=95420.0

[Vinny]

Although I agree that milling a very small RDS like the Viper into the slide will achieve the lowest red dot; I also understand the desire to NOT mill the slide, have a very reliable set-up with BUIS, and keep the total investment reasonable.

So here's a solution that's worked so well on my full-size 75 SP-01,
that I'm just now doing to my P-01 too:

The combination achieves lower 1/3 co-witness BUIS with only a .275 tall front Dawson FO sight, a self-adjusting J-Point RDS that stays ready 24/7 but dims in storage for 1 year+ battery life, and a Leupold #170903 CZ-75 mount that utilizes the dovetail to mount low and contours perfectly to the slide.  ALL-IN only $325. The J-point fits Leupold mount exactly (made by very experienced RDS company Shield for JP Enterprises) has a built in notch that serves as a rear 'iron'. I posted a detailed DIY for CZ 75 Red Dot <$325 in 'Lights, Lasers, Red Dots' Forum section.  I'll post more images of my P-01 as I complete my P-01 later this week.

Of course in use the red dot will be in center of reticle, but image below shows co-witness of 'irons' and red dot. JPoint is only 3/8" above top of slide.  Of course, there's no reason you can't mill the J-Point to achieve an even lower mount, but this set-up is very good!



I won't argue that a deep-milled Trijicon RMR or Viper without an adapter plate might be an even better and perhaps more rugged set-up, but you're talking more $$ invested; and cannot be reversed or changed.  I believe Primary Machine can do this for you. CZ Custom offers a nice milled-in mounting plate, but I don't think you gain much in mounting height.  I think many of us with older eyes are looking for compact carry-optic RDS solutions. Please keep us posted! 

[boss281]

Although I agree that milling a very small RDS like the Viper into the slide will achieve the lowest red dot; I also understand the desire to NOT mill the slide, have a very reliable set-up with BUIS, and keep the total investment reasonable.

So here's a solution that's worked so well on my full-size 75 SP-01,
that I'm just now doing to my P-01 too:

The combination achieves lower 1/3 co-witness BUIS with only a .275 tall front Dawson FO sight, a self-adjusting J-Point RDS that stays ready 24/7 but dims in storage for 1 year+ battery life, and a Leupold #170903 CZ-75 mount that utilizes the dovetail to mount low and contours perfectly to the slide.  ALL-IN only $325. The J-point fits Leupold mount exactly (made by very experienced RDS company Shield for JP Enterprises) has a built in notch that serves as a rear 'iron'. I posted a detailed DIY for CZ 75 Red Dot <$325 in 'Lights, Lasers, Red Dots' Forum section.  I'll post more images of my P-01 as I complete my P-01 later this week.

Of course in use the red dot will be in center of reticle, but image below shows co-witness of 'irons' and red dot. JPoint is only 3/8" above top of slide.  Of course, there's no reason you can't mill the J-Point to achieve an even lower mount, but this set-up is very good!


I won't argue that a deep-milled Trijicon RMR or Viper without an adapter plate might be an even better and perhaps more rugged set-up, but you're talking more $$ invested; and cannot be reversed or changed.  I believe Primary Machine can do this for you. CZ Custom offers a nice milled-in mounting plate, but I don't think you gain much in mounting height.  I think many of us with older eyes are looking for compact carry-optic RDS solutions. Please keep us posted! 

This EXACTLY the solution I am looking for with my P-01. Thank you!

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[bpnkrtn]

Had my wife's CZ 75 Compact milled for a DP Pro by Primary Machine.  They also installed the taller front sight and cerakoted the slide.  At one point I think they had stopped milling for DP Pros due to those sights running out of elevation range and not being able to get POI to POA.  Didn't hear of any issues with the RMRs.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=95420.0

M14A4ME ... thanks for info, especially the pictures of the DP-P.  At present the DP-P is my favorite RDS ... unfortunately it's also the largest!   As you say of your wife's compact w/ DP-P ... looks awkward, functions fine.

Decisions ... decisions.  Thanks again.

[bpnkrtn]

Although I agree that milling a very small RDS like the Viper into the slide will achieve the lowest red dot; I also understand the desire to NOT mill the slide, have a very reliable set-up with BUIS, and keep the total investment reasonable.

Vinny ... thanks for your input/information, much appreciated.  I'm considering this as a temporary "fix" and holding out for new/improved/smaller red dots?  It does look very nice, thanks again.

[Vinny]

Although I agree that milling a very small RDS like the Viper into the slide will achieve the lowest red dot; I also understand the desire to NOT mill the slide, have a very reliable set-up with BUIS, and keep the total investment reasonable.

Vinny ... thanks for your input/information, much appreciated.  I'm considering this as a temporary "fix" and holding out for new/improved/smaller red dots?  It does look very nice, thanks again.

I think this plan makes good sense. You get to try a good cost-effective RDS/BUIS set-up without milling; leaving your options open as you research different set-ups and optic features and decide what you reallywant. Of course the DPP will also fit the same mount, but IMHO it's too tall for a 75 Compact. I have a P-07 with the DPP deep milled and it still took a .440 tall front sight to co-witness. There's a bunch of different mounts for the JPoint (including S&W revolver) so you can always use it somewhere else. BTW, Optics Planet frequently runs 10-12% off RDS sales-free shipping.
Good luck with your PCR RDS Project, and please keep us posted! -Vinny

[Vinny]

Quick UPDATE:
Although the JPoint and Leupold mount work great on a FULL SIZE 75, I've tried this set-up on my P-01 and because of the shorter barrel/tilt there isn't enough elevation adjustment in the JPoint to achieve POA/POI. Fully adjusted it still shoots 8" low. I'm going to contact JP Enterprises who imports these from Shield in UK to see if there's some other solution.  But for now I can't recommend this set-up for a 75 Compact. -Vinny

[bpnkrtn]

Quick UPDATE:
Although the JPoint and Leupold mount work great on a FULL SIZE 75, I've tried this set-up on my P-01 and because of the shorter barrel/tilt there isn't enough elevation adjustment in the JPoint to achieve POA/POI. Fully adjusted it still shoots 8" low. I'm going to contact JP Enterprises who imports these from Shield in UK to see if there's some other solution.  But for now I can't recommend this set-up for a 75 Compact. -Vinny

Thanks for the update!

[Vinny]

Quick UPDATE:
Although the JPoint and Leupold mount work great on a FULL SIZE 75, I've tried this set-up on my P-01 and because of the shorter barrel/tilt there isn't enough elevation adjustment in the JPoint to achieve POA/POI. Fully adjusted it still shoots 8" low. I'm going to contact JP Enterprises who imports these from Shield in UK to see if there's some other solution.  But for now I can't recommend this set-up for a 75 Compact. -Vinny

Wait a minute.......If all else fails...READ THE MANUAL!
I have figured out a solution for the JPoint mount on the shorter barrel P-01.

Here's what the Manual says:
"However, there are occasions when the point of impact of a particular firearm in the elevation range will be outside the adjustment range of the sight. This requires alternate solutions such as shimming the sight."

So, instead of running the Gorilla tape underneath the full length of the mount; I applied the tape just behind the dovetail to act as a shim to tilt the optic mount slightly downward getting me back into adjustment range. Because the screws still hold everything down tight, this should not effect reliability.

Success!  I'll post some pictures:

Tape on just one end underneath mount creates enough 'tilt' to provide elevation adjustment

After dialing in here's a 2"diameter sticky at 10 yards:

[boss281]

Did you bench rest that to dial in the red dot?

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[Vinny]

Did you bench rest that to dial in the red dot?

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Nope, I dial in shooting offhand so it will repeat like I really shoot at self-defense distances. I use that small 2" sticky on a white 8-1/2 x 11" sheet. I shoot 5 rounds at a time to see where I am, make adjustments, and repeat until I can shoot a tight group on a 2" circle at 10 yards, I subscribe to the theory...Aim Small, Shoot Small.  Then 7 or 5 yards is easy-peasy. But make no mistake; I couldn't shoot like that without a red dot.

But many folks do use a bench rest to dial in a new RDS.

Because the barrel and red dot are on slightly different planes; POI will go UP slightly as you shoot at greater distance or DOWN as you get closer. But we're talking fractions of an inch. The lower or closer the RDS is to the plane of barrel, the less of an effect this has.

Hope this info helps.

P.S. Using just the rear notch in the JPoint as my rear 'iron' and original P-01 front sight my shots were 8" high at 7 yards so I calculated I need about .300-.320 tall front sight for co-witness BUIS. Dawson has a .295 tall FO that will probably work OK. If anything shots might be a bit high but it's really only a rarely if ever back-up to RDS.

[Vinny]

If there isn't enough elevation adjustment; JPoint offers some optional wedges.  For my P-01 it took TWO wedges to bring the adjustment into range. Here's what it looks like:

And after dialing in the adjustment....Here are 5 quick shots(1st DA) all inside 1-1/2" diameter at 7 yards: