Author Topic: Purchased a new RAMI, looks used. Do they normally come looking like this?  (Read 3135 times)

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Offline Vinny

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Well, IMHO until the OP actually shoots this RAMI; it's all conjecture.
Of course, I'm a 'If it ain't broke; don't fix it' guy.
Just clean and lube it well and shoot the heck out of it! See if any problems show up, then deal with 'em.

My RAMI BD has about 4,500 rounds through it. It just gets better and better.
The trigger has smoothed itself from wear; and is like butter now. I've reduced signs of wear by using 'Slide-Glide' grease on the barrel and rails. A tiny drop of Lucas extreme duty oil on the springs.

Of course as with most short slide pistols the recoil springs really work hard; so I've replaced the outer recoil spring every 800-1000 or so, and both outer and inner spring set every 3rd spring change.

I look at those slight 'smiles' on my RAMI and I think...This old dog will hunt!  :)  -YMMV
"Without Fear, there can be no Courage"
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Offline recoilguy

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Well, IMHO until the OP actually shoots this RAMI; it's all conjecture.
Of course, I'm a 'If it ain't broke; don't fix it' guy.
Just clean and lube it well and shoot the heck out of it! See if any problems show up, then deal with 'em.

I look at those slight 'smiles' on my RAMI and I think...This old dog will hunt!  :)  -YMMV

I am in this boat, I don't see excess wear in your video.

RCG
........Its that you shoot!

Offline GBUS

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Mine came without any of the shinny spots on the rails and barrel I see in your video. Your barrel hood wear and the smileys are definitely brighter than mine after shooting three hundred rounds so I'm pretty confident in saying yours has 4 or 5 hundred rounds down the pipe or was racked by everyone who walked in that store.

Seeing as it's been awhile since you got the gun I imagine the shop you got it from is now past the time where they would do anything for you. At this point it's just time to lube it and shoot it, gotta see what you get with your range and SD ammo.

Offline PappaWheelie

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  • "This is war, and in war, time is of the essence."
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^ Yeah, I think I’d find it more believeable if the tester (employed by weapons shield)  didn’t have an ax to grind - or a bearing for that matter — to insure that his product came out on top. Through some sleight of hand, it didn’t look like he put any Slip 2000 on the grinding surface at all -- the wear looked the same as the test with no lubricant at all. Would rather see independent, objective tests.

Me too, MeatAxe, so I finally conducted one myself (see 5/7/2018 Update post above). The test condition was indeed in the extreme pressure range, probably more-so than any real world pistol bearing area loadings, but far less severe than that depicted in the posted YouTube, which tests at PV* values WAY beyond real world weapon designs. The Weapon Shield performed well, almost into the Anti-Seize lube range of friction coefficient on my "real world" test. The overkill PV of the YouTube demo machine may thus legitimately represent the result of taking things to the absolute (seize up and stop the machine spindle) limit. One could at least say that Weapon Shield is ~100X better than no lube at all, assuming the worst for the YouTube test.
*PressureVelocity, a tribological test characteristic (= the product of the two in coherent units) that measures the severity of loading withstood
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CC: CZ 2075 RAMI BD w/ CGW Short Reset Kit/1485-T2 Disco, 5 "Thick" Trigger, polished SA hammer tooth; PappaWheelie Invisible 15 Round RAMI Holster

Homeboy: CZ 97 BD, CGW Short Reset Kit/1485-T2 Disco, 5 "Thick" Trigger; Underwood 45 Super 120 Grain Xtreme Defender

Offline dannyvi

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Bought so many Ramis over the years and never had a new one look used! Never had a used one look really bad!

Offline Vinny

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Thanks Tim.

Still haven't shot the dang thing yet.  Hoping to do it on Saturday.  Never owned a gun this long without shooting it in my entire life.  Have new RAMI, P228, and fiancee's LC9, not shot one yet.  :(
Too many guns; not enough time.  :'(

Gone Broker Translation: 'NEW' means 'Never Ever Whopped'  LOL

Really, it doesn't look NIB, but it appears it was only fired a bit or shop worn slightly. The receiver looks pretty clean inside. CZ's are very durable and capable of NATO or +P ammo. Too much time has passed to have any recourse with the seller anyhow. Choot it already!  O0
"Without Fear, there can be no Courage"
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Offline recoilguy

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So are you still sitting on it or did you take it out and put a few down range with it?
I am very interested to hear what went wrong when you took it out and shot it.

RCG
........Its that you shoot!

Offline robert1804

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I cleaned my RAMI BD last night. It's now at 350 rounds and shows significantly more barrel wear near the muzzle and in the slide at the barrel hood than yours does. Your rails are a bit more worn than mine. There is enough variability in how much preservative oil and wear spots were in all of my CZ's to say yours falls within the "normal" range for a new CZ pistol, in my experience. 

Offline CZSkins

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So are you still sitting on it or did you take it out and put a few down range with it?
I am very interested to hear what went wrong when you took it out and shot it.

RCG

Ran about 80 rounds through it on Saturday after club match.  It failed on four of the six mags 2 of 3 on both the 10 and 14 rounders.  So it's 33% reliable thus far.  I now know why I'm a SIG guy.  You take them out the box they look immaculate and shoot every freaking time you pull the trigger.

Same failure each time.  Fires, ejects, strips next round, chambers live round but doesn't go into battery, stops about 1/4-3/8" short. 

I am so dissapointed, when it did go bang it was super accurate.  I'm not an excellent shot, but was able to hit six inch piece of steel at 20 yards 8 out of 10 times with it shooting neither fast or slow, about one second splits.

Here's a picture I took with a snap cap to show what it looked when it failed.



I only had time for the six mags as I had to leave to meet someone.  Not sure if I should dump another couple hundred into the berm at this point to see if it breaks in, or attempt to contact CZ again.  CZ never returned my first call, so this great customer service I've heard about I have not witnessed.  It's been six weeks so far, no return call.

Offline jack76590

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Never good when pistol looks used and then it jams first time out. Someone may have sold you "problem pistol" as new. I would not fire anymore, but I might suggest one test before you send back to factory. Take out barrel and see if rounds from lot/box that jammed drop easily into chamber. Might also use caliper to measure chamber, but tricky job. I think possible you may have tight chamber. Good luck.

Offline Vinny

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Never good when pistol looks used and then it jams first time out. Someone may have sold you "problem pistol" as new. I would not fire anymore, but I might suggest one test before you send back to factory. Take out barrel and see if rounds from lot/box that jammed drop easily into chamber. Might also use caliper to measure chamber, but tricky job. I think possible you may have tight chamber. Good luck.

+1 on comments above.
It could be a tight chamber, ammo it doesn't like, or...a weak recoil spring set.
Short barrel semi-autos require the recoil springs to work extra hard.

I've initially had issues with both my 3" barrel RAMI and my Sig 290rs needing a spring change (especially outer spring) after as few as 500 rounds when new. Hmmm, weren't we thinking the wear on your 'new' RAMI indicated maybe that many??

Both CZ and SIG (and HK by the way had weak recoil springs initially on the VP-9) sent me new recoil springs gratis; and that solved the problem. I now stock extra recoil springs; replacing the outer spring every 500-1000 rounds (when it starts to feel weaker and throws brass further than normal) and the inner&outer spring set every 3rd change.

I also polished the feed ramp and throat of my 2015 RAMI, but my 2017 came polished.

Round count on my 2015 just passed 4,500 and it runs and shoots like a little Demon.

In either event; CZ like SIG will fix it if you can't. Even if it was due to a new gun not being quite 'new'.  ::)
"Without Fear, there can be no Courage"
"Carpe Diem"

Offline MeatAxe

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So are you still sitting on it or did you take it out and put a few down range with it?
I am very interested to hear what went wrong when you took it out and shot it.

RCG

Ran about 80 rounds through it on Saturday after club match.  It failed on four of the six mags 2 of 3 on both the 10 and 14 rounders.  So it's 33% reliable thus far.  I now know why I'm a SIG guy.  You take them out the box they look immaculate and shoot every freaking time you pull the trigger.

Same failure each time.  Fires, ejects, strips next round, chambers live round but doesn't go into battery, stops about 1/4-3/8" short. 

I am so dissapointed, when it did go bang it was super accurate.  I'm not an excellent shot, but was able to hit six inch piece of steel at 20 yards 8 out of 10 times with it shooting neither fast or slow, about one second splits.

Here's a picture I took with a snap cap to show what it looked when it failed.



I only had time for the six mags as I had to leave to meet someone.  Not sure if I should dump another couple hundred into the berm at this point to see if it breaks in, or attempt to contact CZ again.  CZ never returned my first call, so this great customer service I've heard about I have not witnessed.  It's been six weeks so far, no return call.


Well, I wouldn't put that all on CZ. You were advised not to accept that pistol in the questionable condition it arrived in. The lessons learned should be #1 don't accept a "new" gun in obviously used / abused condition and #2 don't ever buy anything on Gun Broker, especially from some jack legged pawn shop masquerading as a gun distributor, no matter how glitzy their website. So much for the "just shoot it" school of thought here.

That said, if you send it in to CZ USA and explain the situation, I'm they'll do their best to make it work right. However, there's no accounting for how that pistol was used / abused before you got it. It may be as simple as the outer recoil spring being totally spent from shooting a thousand rounds with no lube (were the empty shells being kicked out 10 or 15 feet?). But you never know. I'd have CZ inspect it. My 2014 vintage Rami with 3,000+ rounds through it doesn't show nearly as much wear as yours does.

SIGs are not perfect out of the box themselves, by any stretch of the imagination, especially since they've ramped up production to 500,000+ units per year. I  once bought a "Custom Shop" P239 SAS that was so badly machined internally that it shot 7" low at 7 yards. SIG CS's response: their standard "shooter error."
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 09:11:10 PM by MeatAxe »

Offline EDCzechnology

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That looks more used than my new Rami BD did, dont have it anymore though big ogre hands dont mix with subcompacts.

Offline six

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SIG CS's response: their standard "shooter error."

I'd wager a guess that over 50% of issues they deal with are actually shooter-related.  Some of the things I see people doing at the range just make me shake my head. 

Be that as it may, the customer service reps change their tune pretty quickly when you email them a video of the issue.  I had several issues with a Sig, and it had to make a few trips back and forth to NH before it was finally resolved.  On trip number three, I took a video of it jamming in a ransom rest.  Kinda hard to blame the shooter in that situation.

Proper documentation helped so much, in fact, that I don't even contact customer service anymore until I've got thorough photo or video evidence of the issue I'm having.  It really goes a long way in helping them diagnose your issue over the phone/email.

Not to say that OP is doing it wrong, but if I were in his situation, my first step would've been contacting CZ with some photos of the gun I'd just taken possession of...


Offline MeatAxe

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SIG CS's response: their standard "shooter error."

I'd wager a guess that over 50% of issues they deal with are actually shooter-related.  Some of the things I see people doing at the range just make me shake my head. 

Be that as it may, the customer service reps change their tune pretty quickly when you email them a video of the issue.  I had several issues with a Sig, and it had to make a few trips back and forth to NH before it was finally resolved.  On trip number three, I took a video of it jamming in a ransom rest.  Kinda hard to blame the shooter in that situation.

Proper documentation helped so much, in fact, that I don't even contact customer service anymore until I've got thorough photo or video evidence of the issue I'm having.  It really goes a long way in helping them diagnose your issue over the phone/email.

Not to say that OP is doing it wrong, but if I were in his situation, my first step would've been contacting CZ with some photos of the gun I'd just taken possession of...


In my experience, as SIG has reached mega corporation status since moving nearly all operations to Exeter, they've become extremely arrogant, treating their paying beta testers -- I mean "customers" like idiots.

I may not know a lot, but I know enough that when the barrel lugs are getting peened against the inside of the slide, something is definitely wrong, as I explained what was happening to the SIG "customer service" agent. But in response, I get some long-winded lecture (read off a card, apparently) that the reason I'm hitting 7" below my POA at 7 yards is because I'm ignorant of SIG's vaunted "combat sight picture" -- which is a load of horse bleep in and of itself. With the "combat sight picture" you basically block your view of the target which allows for a much larger margin for error in accuracy for SIG to hide behind when their guns don't measure up.

SIG seems more concerned these days with coming up with horrible, glitzy finishes (rainbow, diamond plate, etc.) and "special editions" than they are in quality control (like the old West German and early Exeter SIGs) or making sure new products actually work before they go to market.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 02:20:57 AM by MeatAxe »