Author Topic: 5.56 barrels availability?  (Read 822 times)

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Offline Hal O Peridol

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5.56 barrels availability?
« on: May 02, 2018, 03:51:42 AM »
Does anyone out there make a barrel in 5.56 NATO for kit builds?

My google foo is not working. Have a NOS Grand Power reciever that I'd like to build up into a 5.56 rifle.  Thanks.

First post on this forum, but long tim CZ firearm owner. Pre B CZ-76 from the Neu Ulm Rod and Gun Club, CZ-82, VZ-52/57, CA 2008.

Been sitting on this reciever for several years.

Offline RSR

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 11:07:55 PM »
Keep it 7.62x39.  Don't put a polymer magwell in a grand power!  They're too rare.  If you want to get fancy, give 6.5 Grendel a try.

Offline Hal O Peridol

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 01:37:06 AM »
Reciever has already been modified, it was originally a single stack that I had a machinist ope up to take the 30 round mags. How did that affect the value?

Offline RSR

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 08:53:37 PM »
It didn't affect detrimentally at all. 

All Grand Power receivers had to enter that way -- the bare receiver is a "firearm" after all per BATF...

Point being, the Grand Power receivers are a rarer variant of the VZ58 (sold briefly by Czechpoint or whatever their predecessor was called).  And being the Slovakian 1/2 of the current Czech production makes for a cool complement/additional to a stable of the Czech CZ/CSA/Dtech receiver guns.

IIRC, they have a bit more rounded profile to their exterior machining, which is unique, and interesting.

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2018, 05:10:56 PM »
Lothar Walther apparently makes the 5.56 barrels for CSA's Vz58s, assuming they're threaded the same as your receiver, that should work.

But, I'm with RSR, if you're going to do it, put a 6.5 Grendel barrel on it. I'm sure Lothar Walther could make one of those for you. You can also get adaptors to use AR mags in the Vz58 (Czechpoint, Zahal). Then you could use 6.5 G AR mags to feed it.

That would be awesome! Thinking about doing that myself.

Offline RSR

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 05:42:23 PM »
My thinking on 6.5 G is that at least some loadings might probably fit in standard VZ58 mag...  Only a 1.5mm, 0.059 inches, less than 1/16", difference in overall length.  I don't own any 6.5 G guns, so haven't tried. 

But if you're handloading, can see some decent improvement w/ 7.62x39 too: https://rifleshooter.com/2017/04/reloading-the-7-62x39-mm-russian-load-development-with-125-and-150-gr-bullets/

7.62x39 is just less accurate at longer range.

Barrels are press in for all and AFAIK no difference in receiver or barrel chamber end dimensions.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 05:46:08 PM by RSR »

Offline RSR

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2018, 08:26:52 PM »
FWIW, I did the math at one point for 6.5 creedmoor vs 6.5 grendel. 

6.5 C is larger case and about the same price for premium ammo.  Need a 20-22" barrel though for optimal.

6.5 G is a smaller case and can get by with an 18-20" barrel. 

But I couldn't identify what I would use 6.5 Grendel for that I couldn't use an 5.56 or 7.62x39 for that was nearly as capable.  By the time you get to ranges where 6.5 Grendel really shines, 6.5 creedmoor is more appropriate in every way, with something like a 10% or so increase in cost. 

The only use case I could find for 6.5 grendel is if you want a short action gun that performs better at ranges, or find a longer range round that fits in existing 5.56 or 7.62x39 receivers.  It's also good for minimizing differences in external profiles of unit marksmen vs regular soldiers if on counter-sniper or similar mission, but that's about it. 

So definitely get the cool factor of 6.5 Grendel, but from a raw numbers standpoint it just doesn't measure up.  As always YMMV, and just something to chew on.

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 02:26:39 AM »
Though it's been scarce of late, I think we'll be seeing more Wolf 6.5 Grendel fmj for 25 cents a round or less, which is a good reason to shoot that caliber, which, all things considered, outshines 5.56 and 7.62x39. It's a good, flat shooting, medium power "assault rifle" round that can reach out and put the hurt on something at distance.

Privi Partisan really should start exporting 6.5 Grendel to the US again, especially since the Serbian military is chambering their AKs in that caliber.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 02:36:17 AM by MeatAxe »

Offline RSR

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 04:09:12 PM »
I prefer 7.62x39 to 6.5 Grendel for the envelope...  7.62x39 is better against concrete and other such cover at modern combat ranges... Effectively does everything .308 does w/in 250 yards, without all the excess energy... 

6.5 Grendel is definitely a better ballistics choice, BUT like I said before 6.5 Creedmoor is better in every way except action size/cartridge length. 

Just checked prices and steel wolf is now at .46-.60 cents per round and brass starts at .83 cents: https://www.wikiarms.com/group/6.5grendel

6.5 creedmoor brass starts at .58 cents per round: https://www.wikiarms.com/group/6.5Creedmoor

It was over a year ago when I last checked, and creedmoor's performance per cent now results in the creedmoor cost being about 1/2 that of the grendel (using lowest price per round brass case numbers).  Russia is only source for steel case, and sanctions could remove that source at any time...

Offline RSR

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 04:33:37 PM »
Also, the 7.62x39 round I'd most like to see in mass production is a slightly downloaded with heavier bullet  (and case better shaped for semi-auto feeding) version of the 6mm PPC.  So that'd be a 70-90 gr bullet pushed at ~2500 fps out of an SBR barrel and ~2700+ fps out of 16"+ barrel. 

Effectively, a combloc version of the 6mm AR with a slightly lighter bullet pushed at a slightly faster speed, and somewhat similar to performance of .224 Valkyrie at inside of 500 yards as well, but carbine optimized yet increased performance available for longer barrel DMR, etc, profile rifles... 

Not sure about barrel life however.

http://www.eabco.com/6PPC.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/6PPC.html

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: 5.56 barrels availability?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 10:37:43 AM »
I prefer 7.62x39 to 6.5 Grendel for the envelope...  7.62x39 is better against concrete and other such cover at modern combat ranges... Effectively does everything .308 does w/in 250 yards, without all the excess energy... 

6.5 Grendel is definitely a better ballistics choice, BUT like I said before 6.5 Creedmoor is better in every way except action size/cartridge length. 

Just checked prices and steel wolf is now at .46-.60 cents per round and brass starts at .83 cents: https://www.wikiarms.com/group/6.5grendel

6.5 creedmoor brass starts at .58 cents per round: https://www.wikiarms.com/group/6.5Creedmoor

It was over a year ago when I last checked, and creedmoor's performance per cent now results in the creedmoor cost being about 1/2 that of the grendel (using lowest price per round brass case numbers).  Russia is only source for steel case, and sanctions could remove that source at any time...

SG Ammo has Wolf 100 gr fmj 6.5 Grendel back in stock @ 27 cents per round.