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Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?

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Vinny:
We?re seeing more and more handguns with Red Dots. Why?

Because after a short learning curve they?re simply faster and more accurate than iron sights. Especially beneficial if like me, you have aging eyes.

If you still have doubts, consider this exhaustive 4 year study by Sage Dynamics of RDS for military and LEO use: https://lockedback.com/results-4-year-handgun-red-dot-study-sage-dynamics/

But like many new things in electronics, the choices are confusing and shooters who want to improve their skills often ask?Where do I start?

There are a number of good threads on the CZ Forum about RDS, especially in the ?Lights, Lasers and Red Dots? section and a lot has been already written by others more experienced than I, including s0nspark one of the Forum's administrators who's very knowledgeable especially about RDS.
 
But perhaps I can share a few tips I've learned (the hard way) that might provide a starting point:

A good red dot to mount on a semi-auto slide will start around $200 (Burris Fast Fire 3, Vortex Venom or Viper), with mid-price units $300-400 (Sig Romeo 1, Shield RMS and RMSc, JPoint, Leupold Delta Point Pro} and go up over $500+ for Trijicon?s top RMR models (like RMR 06 and 07) . A moving slide can generate G forces in the 1000's so they have to be built to withstand this and hold perfect alignment; so that's why they cost so much.

If you want a low-risk way to 'test the water' you can mount a relatively inexpensive RDS (I started with a Browning Buckmark Reflex p/n 1290230 ~$45) that just fastens on the picatinny rail of my Buckmark 22LR pistol (or Ruger MK III or IV, SW-22 Victory, etc) where the RDS is not subjected to those high G forces of the moving slide. This gave me a chance to see just how much easier it was to shoot with BOTH EYES OPEN looking through the reticle lens at the target and the dot would appear exactly where the bullet would go (after dialing it in). Although this type of inexpensive red dot sits rather high atop the picatinny rail, and in no way is the ideal setup; In no time I was shooting tight groups again at 20-25 yards. Almost felt like cheating, a competitive edge older eyes sure can use!

Next step for me was purchasing a handgun that was 'Optic-Ready' like a Canik TP9SFX, FNH-FNX 45 Tactical, S&W M&P CORE, Springfield XDM OSP, etc. The slides are pre-milled and ready to mount various optics without gunsmithing.  I chose a Glock 17 MOS (Modular Optic System) that had the slide pre-milled to mount an optic with interchangeable plates that fit all the major RDS so I could try several. I went with a Leupold DPPro. But a less expensive Burris, Vortex, JPoint/Shield or other good RDS will get you started until you really know the various RDS features that are most import to you. Anyone handy can mount these in the pre-drilled tapped holes.

There's also the choice of dot size to consider depending upon intended use, from a small MOA (moment of Angle) like 2moa for longer distance target shooting, to a larger dot 6 to 8moa for faster defensive shooting.

Another way to get started is with a mounting plate that goes in place of the rear dovetail. A fairly easy DIY once the rear sight is removed. There are a number of companies like Springer that fit specific handgun dovetails. Another source for these RDS mounting plates is Midway or Optics Planet. The mounting plate locks into the dovetail and the RDS will fasten into pre-drilled tapped holes in the mount, but of course there are 5 or 6 different hole patterns for all the different RDS. Some plates will accept multiple models. In another thread I posted a detailed how-to DIY to mount a Shield/JPoint on a CZ-75 variant using a Leupold CZ-75 mount that also fits a Shield or JPoint. This allowed me a chance to try a RDS on my SP-01 without milling the slide.

But for a defensive handgun, not just a range or competition gun; having BUIS Back Up Iron Sights is considered essential, where the irons will be available looking through the lower 1/3 of the reticle lens to provide working sights in the rare instance the RDS stops working.  It takes some getting used to and practice presenting the handgun so the red dot 'appears' in the Lens and the BUIS also helps provide you a reference. However, after considerable practice, you won't even use the BUIS as just acquiring the dot will become instinctive and much faster.

Again, for defensive guns the ideal scenario is to get the optic mounted as low as possible, milling the slide so the RDS sits even lower and lines up so the stock irons can be utilized for BUIS. There are a number of good resources to do this milling and optic mounting turn-key including CGW, CZ Custom and Primary Machine and cost is roughly $150 to $200 for this, plus cost of the optic you choose.
Primary Machine's website has an excellent info page called 'Knowledge Center' that has much more in depth info on the subject of RDS.

Last but not least; there are several ?turn-key? handguns now available that come from the factory with the RDS optic mounted and a matched set of co-witness sights.  Sig Sauer?s RX series features a choice of their P320, P226, or P229 mated with their proprietary Romeo1 RDS and their excellent XRay 3 night sights that are properly positioned as lower 1/3 co-witness BUIS. There's also the Springfield XDM OSP that comes with a Vortex Venom mounted and BUIS. And Walther just introduced their sub-compact carry PPS M2 with a SHIELD RMSc mounted and matched to BUIS.  I?m sure there will be more in the future, as Red Dots on handguns will become as prolific as scopes on rifles!

Hope this info helps. -Vinny

boss281:
Vinny, this is an excellent summary that is the motivation I need to quit trying to find a working iron sight solution for the aging eye problem.  I've tried night sights, fiber optic front and back, fiber optic front with "over 40 eyes" black rear sights with deeper/wider cuts...it's been an exercise in frustration since I retired in late 2016 and started hitting the range 2-3x a week.  Before that I was lucky to find time for range shooting once a month.  For my rifles shooting in 9mm competitive events out to 25 yards or solo bullseye shooting at (often much) longer distances, my nearsightedness corrective lenses and a red dot (PCC) or magnifying scope (longer bullseye) were the combo needed to be competitive or personally satisfying.  It just plain works, and is a solid rifle solution.

When I started working in a gun shop in late 2017 and simultaneously started shooting competitions (steel shoots), I needed to blow the dust off the CZs and start practicing bullseye, defensive shooting, and competition shooting.  It was so overwhelming because I simply could NOT clearly see my front sights wearing my prescriptions.  For bullseye or competition, I need to have my nearsightedness corrected or I can't see what I'm shooting at past 15 yards clearly enough (defensively, in the shop or home, clear lenses have to suffice and center mass shooting is more than adequate--not discussed further here).  I have to toss those iron sights, period.

Several months ago, I picked up a spare SP-01 slide to get milled for my SP-01 Tactical to use in competitions.  I'll send all this out by Saturday, I'm done futzing.  I'm going to explore a dovetail RDS sight mount for my range gun (CZ 75BD) so I can shoot 5, 7, 10, 15 and 25 yards and feel like I'm accomplishing something.  For my P-01 OWB work guns (P-01 at 4-5 o'clock or P-07 worn on the hip), I think, given the close distances I'm working with in practice, I can get by with clear lenses when practicing for now.  I've got a defensive handgun refresher coming up in June, and that said, might take the SP-01T with me to compare if it's done in time though...it might be enough to put me over the edge and have the RDS treatment done for all 4 of my CZ pistols.

You and a few others have really done a good job pioneering the conversation around the RDS solution, especially for us older b@stards that are frustrated with the body wearing out a bit.  I'm 60 and fit, hit the gym 3 times a week and can still run with the youngsters on a competitive front, yet I can't hit what I can't see holding a pistol---the eyes are my weak point and solution is staring me in the face.  Time to stop being stubborn and prideful, time to get the job done.

Kudos...

Vinny:
Thanks boss,
There's so many of us in the same boat.
But I've picked up many good tips from this forum that have worked for me; thought it was time for me to share.
Sounds like you're on the right track!  -Vinny

baldrage:
Thank you for posting this -- bookmarked!

I'm 45, not quite ready to give up on iron sights yet, but I can tell it will only be a couple more years at best before I need to make the switch.

If you could insert links to some of the posts and websites you mentioned, that would be super-helpful and merit making this a sticky, IMHO.

s0nspark:
If you stumble across any of my posts on MRDS-equipped handguns you will probably find me saying "jump in! get your feet wet!" :) Of course, some approaches to this experiment are better than others unless you truly do not care what it may cost - yes, there are apparently some of those folks out there! :)

First, I think it is wisest, by far, to start with an inexpensive MRDS setup and spend some quality time behind the gun. You simply can't get a true feel for the pros and cons of running a dot without actually doing a fair amount of dry-fire and live-fire with an MRDS-equipped handgun. Choose an optic-ready handgun model and put an inexpensive MRDS on there and go to work!

The takeaways for me were that I wanted an RMR... on ALL of my handguns where it suited the gun's purpose... and that I needed to work harder on making my presentation consistent. Others have come away less committed to the concept (or the amount of work it requires) or have decided to wait for "better" gun and optic options. The important point was that I made an informed decision for myself based on my own experiences.

Even if you come away from the experiment having decided that you don't want to pursue a more expensive setup, that starter setup still makes an EXCELLENT dry-fire tool. Many new to working with a pistol-mounted MRDS are disturbed to see the amount of movement in the dot when holding on target compared to what they see in their irons. It really keeps you honest and can help you diagnose and correct trigger control and presentation issues that otherwise might go undiagnosed and untreated.

Should you decide that a serious MRDS setup is for you, you will need to do your homework! Choice of optic should depend on how the gun is to be used. While I do occasionally compete and take fun guns to the range, my "lane" with this is very much handguns for defensive use so keep that in mind as we proceed ;-)

There are different trade-offs for each optic choice... The Trijicon RMR RM06 and RM07 models are the current gold standard on guns for self-defense use due to their feature set and track record with reliability BUT the RMR has a relatively smaller window and the glass has a tint to it that some find less than ideal. It is also more expensive than most, if not all, of the other MRDS options. If your tolerance for optic failure is a little higher - say with a range or competition gun - then you have a lot of other options. The three I see most mentioned are the Leupold DeltaPoint Pro, the Vortex Venom, and the Shield RMS. Please note that I am not saying that these wouldn't work for carry or home defense - you just need to recognize that there is more risk of failure with these models compared to the RMR. 

This brings up an important point, though...

Any mechanical or electronic piece of gear can fail unexpectedly. At that point, it doesn't matter what you paid for it, what someone else's experience with it was or how great the company's warranty service is. (Ok, that last one does matter - just not in the heat of a defensive encounter!)

On a carry gun, you need to plan and practice for optic failure. You should have quality backup irons and you should regularly practice with them by turning the dot off. You should also spend some time practicing by taping over the optic window entirely and shooting using just the optic body and slide as a reference. There are techniques that can be used to ensure combat-effective hits well out past typical self-defense distances but they are not something you want to have to guess at or try to master under duress ;-) Just as you practice malfunction drills with your gun, you should practice optic failure drills as well.

You should be clear on this point: an MRDS setup simply does not make you shoot better. Sorry, it just does not. *moment of silence inserted here*

An MRDS does help you see better and allows you to stay target-focused. It can also give you more information about how well you are employing the essential shooting skills. Overall, practicing and shooting with an MRDS handgun takes serious commitment to get results - money, time and a certain willingness to trust what the optic is telling you and change accordingly - but these investments pay huge dividends if you put in the work.

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