Author Topic: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............  (Read 511 times)

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Online viking499

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So......work has finally slowed down, my new toy got out of jail, my threaded CZ is ready to go and I just picked up a new Ruger PCC to play with and the new 550B is lined up and ready....all things are looking up. ;D

So, I need some cheap bullets to load up some plinkers and subs for my 9mm and 300 blackout.  After following some threads, I have been looking at the coated ACME, Missouri and Gallant bullets. 

I have a jug of 231 and some AA#9.

What I have looked at so far is....

Missouri....
IDP #8 135 grain
245 grain blackout

Acme.......
245 grain blackout
135 RN
145 RN

Gallant.......
217 grain blackout
135 RN

All seem to be the Hi-Tek coating if I am correct.

I found some 147's, but none of them are RN bullets.  Most are flat points.  I think I would prefer the RN bullets for easier loading in the CZs. Am I correct in my thinking on that?

Any recommendations on the bullets listed above for subsonic work?  If so, any load recommendations for the powders I have listed above?

What diameter bulletsothe would work best for the 9 and 300?
Any discount codes for these bullets or special shipping prices?
Any other recommendations for bullets that I did not list for my intended use?
Anything I am forgetting or need to know?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 10:36:49 PM by viking499 »

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2018, 04:49:38 AM »
I know diddly squat for 300 blackout.

As to the 147gr flat points... That TCFP is by far the most common profile for 147gr bullets in 9mm.   That would not be the case if that caused feeding problems. You have nothing to worry about.

That said, ACME makes a 145gr RN that is effectively the same weight AND satisfies your want for an RN.  It is by all accounts an excellent bullet.



Offline Wobbly

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2018, 07:47:24 AM »
I don't know anything about 300 Blackout.

All seem to be the Hi-Tek coating, if I am correct.
MBC offers the IDP#8 either way, so you need to specify Hi-Tek.

I think I would prefer the RN bullets for easier loading in the CZs. Am I correct in my thinking on that?
I think you ought to stick with 124 to 135gr RN for your first go. Loading lead is going to present its very own issues, such as bullet diameter. Then you're going to need a lot of experimentation to get the bullet seated without scrapping up the exterior. 90% of the work is in the setup of the new-to-you machine. The stock Dillon RN seating anvil is going to work great with any of these RN bullets, which is a HUGE reason to also stay with RN.

Any recommendations on the bullets listed above for subsonic work? 
Forget sub-sonic and simply focus on getting an accurate bullet/powder/load for your gun.

If so, any load recommendations for the powders I have listed above?
There is a thread here on the 135gr MBC with lots of load info. Use the SEARCH routine. That will also apply to the 135gr Gallant. Forget the No9, that's way too slow burning. If you want something slower than 231, then try BE-86 or VV N340.

What diameter bullets would work best for the 9 and 300?
What's the diameter of your barrel ? See the trouble starts already. We can't tell you the dia of your barrel.

Any discount codes for these bullets or special shipping prices?
Any other recommendations for bullets that I did not list for my intended use?
Anything I am forgetting or need to know?
The best price of MBC is had by ordering the MBC "bundle".... their word for the most bullets they can fit in a 70# Flat Rate Box. That's around 3000 bullets.

Gallant has a discount code for first orders in the Gallant thread.

All the best.  ;)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 07:50:18 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline redbaron

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2018, 08:32:41 AM »
I would definitely slug your barrels to see what they measure at. While most commercial cast bullets are going to be sized to "factory minimums" (i.e. .356 in the 9mm and .308 in 30 cal), I think some of them will do special orders if you want your bullets sized larger. In general, you'll want something a thousandth or two over your bore diameter. All my CZs slugged at .356, so when I cast I size to .358 and it works wonderfully, for example. Commercial cast is usually hard enough that you can get away with a bullet the same diameter as your bore without fouling issues, but you get the best accuracy with a bullet a little larger than bore
 
Wobbly is right in that you may have some issues at other stages of the reloading process. You probably already have a way to bell the case for the 9mm, but you'll need something to expand the neck of the 300 blackout case enough to start the bullet. You can't just cram them in there like you can with jacketed. A Lyman M-Die for a 30 carbine is what I use to expand my 300 blackout cases for my cast loads, and it works very well.

When I was buying commercial cast it was mostly 9mm, from Acme and Bayou Bullets. I tried all the different bullet designs they offer and every one fed fine, so I wouldn't worry too much about feeding issues, just make sure you have the right seating stem for the bullet style.

231 is a good powder for the 9mm cast, jacketed or plated. You can't go wrong there. I haven't used AA 9, but I've used A1680 and IMR 4227 in my blackout with good results. H110 also works well, but my powder measure leaked like crazy with it, so I stopped using it.

Online viking499

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 11:07:27 AM »
Thanks for the info so far guys.

 My plan is to stil with the RN bullets.  After reading the thread awhile back on the 135 MB #8's and Wobbly's got OD fortune with them, that got me thinking more and more about them.

I have a bunch of 115 and 124 Xtreme and other brand bullets sitting here ready to go, but was looking for a good, economical plinker bullet that that would also pull subsonic duty.  I have never really been a fan of shooting the 147's as I like the 115 and 124.  But, the 135 may be a good middle of the road option.  Still looking at the 145 RN though too.

How hard is it to slug a barrel? 

The #9 powder is what I am planning on using for the 300.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 12:07:41 PM by viking499 »

Offline CPTKILLER

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 11:48:32 AM »
 9mm & Winchester 231 from Hodgdon.

Bullet DIA = .3555"  (http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/Z299-3_ANSI-SAAMI_CFPandR.pdf)

115 grain - Win 231 - Min 4.7 Grs - 1,075 FPS - Pressure 25,300 CUP
                               Max 5.1 Grs - 1,167 FPS - Pressure 28,100 CUP

124 grain - Win 231 - Min 3.9 Grs - 920 FPS - Pressure 27,400 CUP
                               Max 4.4 Grs - 1,037 FPS - Pressure 31,900 CUP

147 grain - Win 231 - Min 3.0 Grs - 755 FPS - Pressure 30,100 CUP
                               Max 3.4 Grs - 845 FPS - Pressure 34,300 CUP

Offline redbaron

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 02:37:16 PM »
It's not hard to slug a barrel. You just need some soft lead fishing weights that are a little larger than the diameter of the bore. Walmart has them. Put a little grease or some sort of lube on them.

Then you just use a wooden dowel a little smaller than the bore and a mallet and gently tap the weight down the barrel. I like to cut the dowel in 3-4 inch sections. It's easier to get the weight started with a smaller piece of dowel than a long one. Then you just keep tapping in sections of dowel until the weight falls out the other end. Preferably onto something soft so the weight doesn't get distorted.  Use you calipers or a micrometer to measure the grooves (which will be the high spots on the weight) and that's your bore diameter.

Like I said earlier, if you can get lead bullets 2-3 thousandths over your bore diameter you'll get the best performance, and have the least amount of issues with lead fouling. There are other ways to get lead fouling, but poor bullet fit is the biggest.

Online viking499

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 04:27:56 PM »
After your recommendations and a YouTube video or two, I was able to slug two barrels.  One was .355 and one was .356.

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2018, 04:31:20 PM »
I just read somewhere about fishing weights not being ideal.  I think it was that because of the alloy that they expand just a hair on the way out of the barrel.  I know Brownells sells slugs specifically for this process and might be a better option.  BUT...

I am in the minority on this here, and I know a lot of guys whose opinions I respect who slug their barrels, but it's not a data point I see much value in.  I know WHY we do it, and I preach bullet-to-barrel fit - - hugely important - - but I let the gun tell me what the best fit is by how the bullets print on paper.

I keep 9mm bullets of different sizing 355/356/357.  I shoot them in every new pistol and let the pistol tell me which ones are best by precision in group size.  Bullet to barrel fit affects accuracy significantly.  Generally speaking, optimal fit equals optimum precision.  And since there's no way I'd go with what the slugging tells me over what the gun tells me, I just don't really care what the slugging shows.  I listen to the gun.

So I can tell you what bullet diameters perform best in the pistols I shoot most of, in both lead and jacketed.  But I can't tell you what the barrels slug at.

We see and say how some pistols just don't do as well with some bullets as others.  It often seems inexplicable.   But I have begun to wonder how often it's a matter of bullet to barrel fit.  With variations in bore diameter from one gun to the next of the same model, and variations from bullet manufacturer to bullet manufacturer, whose sizes do not always mirror the stated specs of the manufacturer, it makes sense.  One CZ-75 loves the PD 124gr JHP, but the next one only likes it - - still good, but just not quite as precise.  Could it be a thousandth difference in the bore diameter?  It easily could. Not really interested in designing a test for it, though. ;)


Offline Wobbly

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 04:45:32 PM »
H110 also works well...


... but only if you need a tan....



 ;D
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Offline Wobbly

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 04:53:02 PM »
9mm & Winchester 231 from Hodgdon.

Bullet DIA = .3555"  (http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/Z299-3_ANSI-SAAMI_CFPandR.pdf)

115 grain - Win 231 - Min 4.7 Grs - 1,075 FPS - Pressure 25,300 CUP
                               Max 5.1 Grs - 1,167 FPS - Pressure 28,100 CUP

124 grain - Win 231 - Min 3.9 Grs - 920 FPS - Pressure 27,400 CUP
                               Max 4.4 Grs - 1,037 FPS - Pressure 31,900 CUP

147 grain - Win 231 - Min 3.0 Grs - 755 FPS - Pressure 30,100 CUP
                               Max 3.4 Grs - 845 FPS - Pressure 34,300 CUP

This same data is in the 1990 Winchester load book. Hodgdon really doesn't do any testing, they just post previous data, even if it's older than dirt. Notice there's no OAL shown. This was from a time when the only 9mm pistol out there was the Hi-Power so things were pretty lax.

You can certainly use this data, but be very mindful of its age.

 ;)
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Offline newageroman

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 10:32:06 AM »
I don't shoot sub sonics, but I've had very good results with the Angus load in the surplus 75B and the new Ruger PCC. If you can stand just a couple cents more to get jacketed bullets, might be worth a look. There is a previous thread about 124gn Precision Deltas with coupon code(if it still works) that will get you 3k for $252 to your door.

Offline redbaron

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2018, 10:55:29 AM »
H110 also works well...


... but only if you need a tan....



 ;D


hahaha, that looks a little toasty. I have a whole pound of H110 and have never used it in a pistol. I have no doubt it'd be exciting  ;D

Offline redbaron

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 11:05:54 AM »
After your recommendations and a YouTube video or two, I was able to slug two barrels.  One was .355 and one was .356.


I would say if you can find a place that would be willing to size your cast to .357 or .358 you'll be much happier. Or you could also take up casting yourself, and have total control over your bullets  O0



Offline Wobbly

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Re: Need some help with some bullet recommendations............
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2018, 08:23:43 AM »
I don't shoot sub sonics...

...but when I do...



 O0
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anything