Ammo Issue with RAMI & PCR

[OldBoldPilot]

It turns out that neither my new RAMI nor my new PCR (both Cajunized with the Pro package) like 9mm American Eagle 147 grain flatnose ammo. Those rounds are shorter than ordinary target ammo or hollow points, and after feeding a couple of rounds normally they tend to nosedive into the feed ramp on both pistols.

Research has shown that they work for some and not for others. I don't particularly care that they don't work for me and I'm not looking for a solution, as my usual 124 grain target rounds and various brands of hollow points feed faultlessly. I'm just stating a data point for anyone interested.

[copemech]

I would not consider this abnormal for the CZ. they were built for 124 ball NATO.
just think of it like an airbus, capt.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Sounds like the ammo is the issue anyway not the guns.

[IDescribe]

OBP,

Those of us who load, load an incredibly wide range of bullets, and you can load flat points, cones, JHP, RN, whatever, even SWC for 9mm CZ pistols.  There is no bullet profile that doesn't work.  I have loaded RN bullets that would fail to feed one or two out of ten, but if I loaded them .01 longer OR shorter, they would feed 100%.

So don't think flat points won't work -- they work fine.  But a particular flat point might not work at a particular OAL.  It seems that is what you've stumbled onto here.  You have stumbled on an unfortunate combination of dimensions and geometry.

[Ruber]

It turns out that neither my new RAMI nor my new PCR (both Cajunized with the Pro package) like 9mm American Eagle 147 grain flatnose ammo. Those rounds are shorter than ordinary target ammo or hollow points, and after feeding a couple of rounds normally they tend to nosedive into the feed ramp on both pistols...

Thank you for sharing!

Though you have a solution that works for you, these symptoms would indicate a timing/spring/magazine problem.  Were either experiencing the nosedives with those rounds prior to modifications?

[OldBoldPilot]

I hadn't tried those particular rounds prior to sending the pistols to CGW. I'd only fired a couple of hundred rounds of my standard 124 grain ball and Gold Dot hollow points to establish reliability -- and they were completely reliable.

As I said, the fact that the pistols don't like 147 grain American Eagle flat points is really of no consequence to me. I just thought I'd post as a matter of interest for others.

[CPTKILLER]

Go with what works in your pistols.

[Ruber]

I hadn't tried those particular rounds prior to sending the pistols to CGW. I'd only fired a couple of hundred rounds of my standard 124 grain ball and Gold Dot hollow points to establish reliability -- and they were completely reliable.

As I said, the fact that the pistols don't like 147 grain American Eagle flat points is really of no consequence to me. I just thought I'd post as a matter of interest for others.

Great, thanks!  And thanks for letting us know which mods had been made to the guns.

Glad you are enjoying it!

[Tyerone]

It turns out that neither my new RAMI nor my new PCR (both Cajunized with the Pro package) like 9mm American Eagle 147 grain flatnose ammo. Those rounds are shorter than ordinary target ammo or hollow points, and after feeding a couple of rounds normally they tend to nosedive into the feed ramp on both pistols...

Thank you for sharing!

Though you have a solution that works for you, these symptoms would indicate a timing/spring/magazine problem.  Were either experiencing the nosedives with those rounds prior to modifications?

I agree with the spring comment and with OPs knowledge being power!  There are always Engineering tradeoffs/compromises.   A gun that "swallows everything" is likely not at its BEST potential (tuned) for a given  particular load.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

OBP,

Those of us who load, load an incredibly wide range of bullets, and you can load flat points, cones, JHP, RN, whatever, even SWC for 9mm CZ pistols.  There is no bullet profile that doesn't work.  I have loaded RN bullets that would fail to feed one or two out of ten, but if I loaded them .01 longer OR shorter, they would feed 100%.

So don't think flat points won't work -- they work fine.  But a particular flat point might not work at a particular OAL.  It seems that is what you've stumbled onto here.  You have stumbled on an unfortunate combination of dimensions and geometry.

This is a fact. Just because the op's gun wouldn't function with the stated ammo does in no way indicate an issue with springs,timing,or magazines. All it indicates is that the tried flat point ammo was out of spec for his guns.
I've loaded flat points and I cast SWC's in 9mm and they need to be adjusted for the gun. SWC's that I loaded years ago for 3rd gen S&W's needed to be a bit shorter to run reliably in my 75BD.

[OldBoldPilot]

Interesting comments from people more knowledgeable than I on the subject. You're never too old to learn a thing or two!

[Ruber]

This is a fact. Just because the op's gun wouldn't function with the stated ammo does in no way indicate an issue with springs,timing,or magazines. All it indicates is that the tried flat point ammo was out of spec for his guns.

I get your point, personally I would be hesitant to use the term ?out of spec?.

I have a rami I use with a reduced power hammer spring because I like the trigger pull it produces.  Slide speed is up and heavy bullets nosedive with that combo.  Factory springs in, slide slows down, heavy bullets cycle fine.

While I get the op is happy with his setup, much as I am happy with mine, I would not call the ammo out of spec.

[IDescribe]

I have a rami I use with a reduced power hammer spring.  Slide speed is up and heavy bullets nosedive with that combo. 

What's your sample size on "heavy" bullets?  I know plenty of people using reduced power mainsprings in 9mm CZs, all the way down to 8.5#, and this is the first I've heard of someone with that problem.   Are you using factory ammo?

[IDescribe]

OldBoldPilot, how many rounds do you have through those pistols?

[Ruber]

I have a rami I use with a reduced power hammer spring.  Slide speed is up and heavy bullets nosedive with that combo. 

What's your sample size on "heavy" bullets?  I know plenty of people using reduced power mainsprings in 9mm CZs, all the way down to 8.5#, and this is the first I've heard of someone with that problem.   Are you using factory ammo?

Just an example of something to look into, I got no idea if it is relevant to the op. The issue is pretty well documented in technical forums and older hardcopy gunsmithing books.

And ya, I could also remedy the situation with extra power mag springs (which many people on this forum do use but I don?t like to).

Just saying it is all a balancing act and appreciate the info the OP and others bring to the forum.

Thank you.