Author Topic: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51  (Read 4941 times)

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Offline Hrfunk

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Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« on: August 24, 2018, 08:16:16 AM »
For any of you who were curious, I disassembled my R51 to see what Remington did to improve its functioning. Check out the video to see what I found, and see if you can spot anything I missed!

HRF

https://youtu.be/Ar0vPGXIf9I

Offline v35

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2018, 01:17:28 PM »
Indeed a quantum improvement given your previous experience. Seems to me that "lip" at the bottom of the breech face was an obvious concern. Not having one myself, I can't imagine what purpose it served.

Polishing the bolt contact surfaces... they probably would have smoothed out over time, but given the number of malfunctions you experienced that would have been a long wait.

Once again thanks!

Offline timetofly

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2018, 11:37:39 PM »
HRF,

At this point are you satisfied with the R51?  Given 20-20 hind sight, would you buy the R51 again?

Your experience and videos has me interested in a R51 at the right price. 
All of life’s journeys begin by putting one foot in front of the other.

Offline Hrfunk

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2018, 08:59:16 AM »
HRF,

At this point are you satisfied with the R51?  Given 20-20 hind sight, would you buy the R51 again?

Your experience and videos has me interested in a R51 at the right price.

Here's the thing, at the price these things are going for, and the performance they are CAPABLE of, they are very appealing. As I mentioned on another forum, for $275 (+/-), if you have issues and you have to send the pistol back for service, it's a lot less aggravating than having to do the same thing with a firearm that costs three or four times that price (which I have, unfortunately, had to do). Also, if you carry it a lot and it gets dinged, scratched, etc, at least it's not your $3000 custom 1911. Lastly, if you are involved in a defensive encounter, and the pistol is seized as evidence, you don't have an expensive pistol languishing in a evidence locker somewhere for several years until the legal system runs its course (yes, it may still have to stay there until the civil proceedings are all done, not just a criminal investigation).

That said, the R51 is an easy to carry, good shooting pistol chambered for an effective cartridge. It's only downside is/are the nagging reliability issues. If Remington had taken the time to iron all that out and delivered a rock solid reliable pistol out of the gates, the R51 would today probably be enjoying sales and reviews similar to the S&W Shield. I say, if you're interested in the R51, take the chance and see what you think of it. If you don't like it, you're not out much. If you have problems, Remington will fix it (by the way, there Customer Service folks are quite nice to work with, and the return and repair was relatively hassle free). At best, you end up with a nice little pistol with a unique appearance and operating system that will likely garner more than a few comments from other shooters. At worst, you trade it in for loss (which given the relatively low price-point, won't be all that much), and get something more to your liking. Probably the biggest negative to owning an R51 are the internet comments from those who say: "I wouldn't own that _______! It's an unreliable piece of _____!". Many, if not most, of the people who say that have probably never even handled, let alone fired an R51. If they had, their opinion might just change.

HRF

Offline timetofly

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2018, 05:46:21 PM »
HRF,

At this point are you satisfied with the R51?  Given 20-20 hind sight, would you buy the R51 again?

Your experience and videos has me interested in a R51 at the right price.

Here's the thing, at the price these things are going for, and the performance they are CAPABLE of, they are very appealing. As I mentioned on another forum, for $275 (+/-), if you have issues and you have to send the pistol back for service, it's a lot less aggravating than having to do the same thing with a firearm that costs three or four times that price (which I have, unfortunately, had to do). Also, if you carry it a lot and it gets dinged, scratched, etc, at least it's not your $3000 custom 1911. Lastly, if you are involved in a defensive encounter, and the pistol is seized as evidence, you don't have an expensive pistol languishing in a evidence locker somewhere for several years until the legal system runs its course (yes, it may still have to stay there until the civil proceedings are all done, not just a criminal investigation).

That said, the R51 is an easy to carry, good shooting pistol chambered for an effective cartridge. It's only downside is/are the nagging reliability issues. If Remington had taken the time to iron all that out and delivered a rock solid reliable pistol out of the gates, the R51 would today probably be enjoying sales and reviews similar to the S&W Shield. I say, if you're interested in the R51, take the chance and see what you think of it. If you don't like it, you're not out much. If you have problems, Remington will fix it (by the way, there Customer Service folks are quite nice to work with, and the return and repair was relatively hassle free). At best, you end up with a nice little pistol with a unique appearance and operating system that will likely garner more than a few comments from other shooters. At worst, you trade it in for loss (which given the relatively low price-point, won't be all that much), and get something more to your liking. Probably the biggest negative to owning an R51 are the internet comments from those who say: "I wouldn't own that _______! It's an unreliable piece of _____!". Many, if not most, of the people who say that have probably never even handled, let alone fired an R51. If they had, their opinion might just change.

HRF

HRF,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.  As soon as I get settled in a free state, I will be looking to add a R51 at the right price. 

Looking forward to seeing more videos from you.
All of life’s journeys begin by putting one foot in front of the other.

Offline DWARREN

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2018, 05:49:25 PM »
Too bad they didn't get it right from the start.
"1776" - Part II

Offline Hrfunk

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 07:11:42 AM »
HRF,

At this point are you satisfied with the R51?  Given 20-20 hind sight, would you buy the R51 again?

Your experience and videos has me interested in a R51 at the right price.

Here's the thing, at the price these things are going for, and the performance they are CAPABLE of, they are very appealing. As I mentioned on another forum, for $275 (+/-), if you have issues and you have to send the pistol back for service, it's a lot less aggravating than having to do the same thing with a firearm that costs three or four times that price (which I have, unfortunately, had to do). Also, if you carry it a lot and it gets dinged, scratched, etc, at least it's not your $3000 custom 1911. Lastly, if you are involved in a defensive encounter, and the pistol is seized as evidence, you don't have an expensive pistol languishing in a evidence locker somewhere for several years until the legal system runs its course (yes, it may still have to stay there until the civil proceedings are all done, not just a criminal investigation).

That said, the R51 is an easy to carry, good shooting pistol chambered for an effective cartridge. It's only downside is/are the nagging reliability issues. If Remington had taken the time to iron all that out and delivered a rock solid reliable pistol out of the gates, the R51 would today probably be enjoying sales and reviews similar to the S&W Shield. I say, if you're interested in the R51, take the chance and see what you think of it. If you don't like it, you're not out much. If you have problems, Remington will fix it (by the way, there Customer Service folks are quite nice to work with, and the return and repair was relatively hassle free). At best, you end up with a nice little pistol with a unique appearance and operating system that will likely garner more than a few comments from other shooters. At worst, you trade it in for loss (which given the relatively low price-point, won't be all that much), and get something more to your liking. Probably the biggest negative to owning an R51 are the internet comments from those who say: "I wouldn't own that _______! It's an unreliable piece of _____!". Many, if not most, of the people who say that have probably never even handled, let alone fired an R51. If they had, their opinion might just change.

HRF

HRF,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.  As soon as I get settled in a free state, I will be looking to add a R51 at the right price. 

Looking forward to seeing more videos from you.

You're welcome. Good luck!

HRF

Offline Hrfunk

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2018, 07:12:09 AM »
Too bad they didn't get it right from the start.

I agree.

HRF

Offline Tenbones

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 10:55:13 AM »
Too bad they didn't get it right from the start.

I agree.

HRF

I don't understand why it is so hard for these gun manufacturers to thoroughly test a new product before putting it on the market.  I think the cost, the time and possible damage to a companies reputation would cost a whole lot more than the expense involved in making sure the product is going to work before putting it on the market.




Offline RSR

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 05:05:30 PM »
Too bad they didn't get it right from the start.

I agree.

HRF

I don't understand why it is so hard for these gun manufacturers to thoroughly test a new product before putting it on the market.  I think the cost, the time and possible damage to a companies reputation would cost a whole lot more than the expense involved in making sure the product is going to work before putting it on the market.

With the majors, stuff seems to be rushed due to stock market/price concerns -- those in charge want to meet their quarterly performance benchmarks at all costs (a lot of times C-levels have incentives built into contracts to meet/exceed certain performance benchmarks).  That's why you see a lot of stuff that makes zero long term sense but delivers immediate value to stocks/shareholders...

Offline RSR

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2018, 05:53:40 PM »
Here's the thing, at the price these things are going for, and the performance they are CAPABLE of, they are very appealing. As I mentioned on another forum, for $275 (+/-), if you have issues and you have to send the pistol back for service, it's a lot less aggravating than having to do the same thing with a firearm that costs three or four times that price (which I have, unfortunately, had to do). Also, if you carry it a lot and it gets dinged, scratched, etc, at least it's not your $3000 custom 1911. Lastly, if you are involved in a defensive encounter, and the pistol is seized as evidence, you don't have an expensive pistol languishing in a evidence locker somewhere for several years until the legal system runs its course (yes, it may still have to stay there until the civil proceedings are all done, not just a criminal investigation).

That said, the R51 is an easy to carry, good shooting pistol chambered for an effective cartridge. It's only downside is/are the nagging reliability issues. If Remington had taken the time to iron all that out and delivered a rock solid reliable pistol out of the gates, the R51 would today probably be enjoying sales and reviews similar to the S&W Shield. I say, if you're interested in the R51, take the chance and see what you think of it. If you don't like it, you're not out much. If you have problems, Remington will fix it (by the way, there Customer Service folks are quite nice to work with, and the return and repair was relatively hassle free). At best, you end up with a nice little pistol with a unique appearance and operating system that will likely garner more than a few comments from other shooters. At worst, you trade it in for loss (which given the relatively low price-point, won't be all that much), and get something more to your liking. Probably the biggest negative to owning an R51 are the internet comments from those who say: "I wouldn't own that _______! It's an unreliable piece of _____!". Many, if not most, of the people who say that have probably never even handled, let alone fired an R51. If they had, their opinion might just change.

HRF

When the RM380 can be had cheaper, is much smaller, and has much reduced reliability issues, I think that's a better route...  When first announced, I definitely wanted the R51, but giving it closer review vs other single stack 9mms, I just didn't see the overall benefit, especially in light of reliability issues...  YMMV.

On size relative to RM380, this is what I found based on #s at this link: http://www.shootingdaily.com/news/remington-has-listened-here-is-the-answer/

R51 is 14% wider, 26.8% longer (including 1/2" longer barrel),  20% taller (but +1 on mag capacity), and 85% heavier vs the RM380. 

That 1/2" barrel length difference is roughly a 50 fps advantage; however, 9mm does provide ~40-75% more energy in similar loadings in same barrel lengths (here w/ difference more 50-80% range), which matters most not so much as energy persay w/ handguns as it does with having the ability to push fully expanded HPs, etc, defensive bullets to adequate penetration depths...  Shot placement is paramount w/ handguns. 
But since I live where it's T shirt weather 9+ months of the year, that energy difference is less of a concern to me than if I lived where it was coat weather 1/2 or more of the year... 

Notably -- with Cabela's sale, Remington rebates, buying cabela's giftcards at less than actual cash value (~10-20% discounts are regularly available on the interwebs), and no FFL fee since picking up in store, I snagged the version w/o the laser for sub-$150 and the versions w/ the lasers for sub-$250 -- accounting for the retail cost of the lasers, the price I paid for the 3 RM380s I purchased was less than $100 per gun IIRC -- would have been 2017 pre-holiday rebate program.  Seriously looked at the R51 under the same program and similar costs to the RM380, and that's when I made the call to skip investing in that weapon system.

Granted, I also work w/ a live, work, and drive w/ double stack compact 9mms close at hand or on hip, and can also quickly access carbines if the need requires, so concerns about the .380's capabilities are lessened due to often immediate alternatives -- but to the point, I think the Remington RM380 is a superb concealed carry option during warmer months where you and any threats will be wearing lightweight clothing.  YMMV.

Please keep us posted on performance.  I never say never on owning any type of gun, but the R51 is currently on my backburner for the forseeable future.  Perhaps user feedback will surprise and make it a have to have.

Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2019, 10:32:51 AM »
I know this is a old topic, but less old for ME.   (The topic was the R-51, but it wandered to the RM380).

I picked up an RM380 several months ago and got the Galloway Precision upgrade kit for it, which includes a different trigger, and different trigger bar, and a bunch of springs (recoil, hammer, trigger). 

With the kit installed, it took a gun that had a heavy and cumbersome LONG (DAO) trigger pull, shortened it a bit, lightened the trigger pull, and took my group sizes at 30' down from 5" to maybe 2.5" when I do my part, shooting at a moderate pace.

Got a good pocket holster for it,r, an extra mag (it came with 3), and I will eventually get a Galloway one-round mag extension. 

I've been very pleased with the upgraded gun.  It's the easiest to shoot, most pleasant small gun I've owned, and I've owned several (PTA3, LCP, PF9, CM9, P9, P-11) or shot (PM9, LC9.)

Those familiar with the RM380 know that Remington bought Rohrbaugh and converted the Rohrbaugh R9 (arguably the smallest 9mm gun available) to a .380 semi-auto, added a different mag release and a slide stop.  It's a great little gun, and I carry it when only a very small gun is possible.  And the more I shoot it, the better I get with it.   Some folks EXPECT Remington to offer a 9mm version of the same gun, one of these days.   

Offline puddintame

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2019, 11:23:51 AM »
Too bad they didn't get it right from the start.
+1 here. I was very interested when these were first introduced

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2019, 12:19:48 PM »
Too bad they didn't get it right from the start.
+1 here. I was very interested when these were first introduced

They did get it right when the original Pederson designed model 51 was introduced in 1918. Those were very well made guns. The re-intro= superfailure.

Offline RSR

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Re: Here's what Remington did to fix my R51
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2019, 03:17:38 PM »
I know this is a old topic, but less old for ME.   (The topic was the R-51, but it wandered to the RM380).

I picked up an RM380 several months ago and got the Galloway Precision upgrade kit for it, which includes a different trigger, and different trigger bar, and a bunch of springs (recoil, hammer, trigger). 

With the kit installed, it took a gun that had a heavy and cumbersome LONG (DAO) trigger pull, shortened it a bit, lightened the trigger pull, and took my group sizes at 30' down from 5" to maybe 2.5" when I do my part, shooting at a moderate pace.

Got a good pocket holster for it,r, an extra mag (it came with 3), and I will eventually get a Galloway one-round mag extension. 

I've been very pleased with the upgraded gun.  It's the easiest to shoot, most pleasant small gun I've owned, and I've owned several (PTA3, LCP, PF9, CM9, P9, P-11) or shot (PM9, LC9.)

Those familiar with the RM380 know that Remington bought Rohrbaugh and converted the Rohrbaugh R9 (arguably the smallest 9mm gun available) to a .380 semi-auto, added a different mag release and a slide stop.  It's a great little gun, and I carry it when only a very small gun is possible.  And the more I shoot it, the better I get with it.   Some folks EXPECT Remington to offer a 9mm version of the same gun, one of these days.   

I went w/ the Mcarbo trigger spring kit, xtra power recoil spring, and stainless guide rod since they were cheaper than galloway.  Their lightened trigger bar spring did sometimes result in the trigger bar slipping off the hammer mid trigger pull on one of my 3 guns -- don't have to install it and I owe MCarbo a malfunction video.  And one other has this malfunction even w/ full power Remington springs (need to send it in for warranty repair).  More tension on the top rear grip screw on the right seems to be able to exacerbate/potentially create this issue on all of my 3 RM380s, at least with lightened springs installed.

I have Galloway's +1 mag extension and stainless seal hammer spring seat installed as well.

The only thing to note is that there is no firing pin block on these guns, which I would prefer especially when you have hammer drop halfway through pull.  I don't put live ammo in guns that have dry fire malfunctions so can't speak to whether it's sufficient force to fire, or not...  But obviously, this is a malfunction that should not occur.