Author Topic: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild  (Read 2664 times)

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Offline Pauly3dotcom

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Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« on: August 28, 2018, 12:47:07 PM »
So the Sig Sauer M17 was just announced and a guy on FB already picked up his and posted in a FB Group!  Pretty awesome I was just reading the e-mail I received from Sig and BAM one is out in the wild already!

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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2018, 09:54:02 AM »
I saw two (same table) at the gun show last weekend locally here in central VA.

Looked at them, wondered about them, decided it couldn't shoot any better than my P09 so why would I need one?

They are nice looking but I don't get to shoot the P09 as much as I really should.  I'm always shooting something else.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline BG ARMORY

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2018, 11:36:15 PM »
They are just a sales gimmick for me. Sig will release this same thing again, just not in fde

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 04:48:18 AM »
They are just a sales gimmick for me. Sig will release this same thing again, just not in fde

Not a single item today that ISN'T a sales gimmick aimed at that portion of the market which will purchase the product. Everybody is making a colored gun these days.

Offline RSR

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2018, 01:31:03 PM »
SP2022 is a better gun IMO.  And I'd rather have a p250 than p320 any day... 

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2018, 01:41:28 PM »
I bought a SIG rifle a few years back.  It was a modded version of the first version they'd released a year of so before (SIG 556R with the improvements brought on by the problems they first model had).

Then, of course, they quit making the improved 556R to make the 55X models.  Then they quit making those to make the newest flavor of SIG rifles.  Then they quit supplying parts for my rifle.

Prior to that I'd already made up my mind there would be no more SIGs at my house.  The 556R and 522 are great rifles, apparently SIG didn't think so and can't figure out what to stick with when it comes to replacements for them.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline RSR

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2018, 09:54:12 PM »
I bought a SIG rifle a few years back.  It was a modded version of the first version they'd released a year of so before (SIG 556R with the improvements brought on by the problems they first model had).

Then, of course, they quit making the improved 556R to make the 55X models.  Then they quit making those to make the newest flavor of SIG rifles.  Then they quit supplying parts for my rifle.

Prior to that I'd already made up my mind there would be no more SIGs at my house.  The 556R and 522 are great rifles, apparently SIG didn't think so and can't figure out what to stick with when it comes to replacements for them.

FWIW, I would never buy a Sig Rifle.  Sig's current US CEO for about a decade now is Ron Cohen, who was previously at Kimber and caused decline in their quality as well -- I think he increased prices and profits, but at the consumers' expense...

Offline JM71

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2018, 02:38:46 PM »
Good looking gun, I just can't love the 320. Bore axis is still too high and still a little concerned with the drop fire issue.

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2018, 03:03:24 PM »
Good looking gun, I just can't love the 320. Bore axis is still too high and still a little concerned with the drop fire issue.
After spending an extensive amount of time recently with my P229's and M11A1 I'm convinced bore axis is more myth than fact.
As to the drop fire issue Sig has remedied the problem.

Offline RSR

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2018, 01:00:23 AM »
I disagree on the bore axis being a myth...

AFAIK, they only remedied the issue in the military guns that have the safety...  Otherwise, it's still a crapshoot -- again, afaik.

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2018, 07:19:22 AM »
I disagree on the bore axis being a myth...

AFAIK, they only remedied the issue in the military guns that have the safety...  Otherwise, it's still a crapshoot -- again, afaik.
You can disagree with the bore axis issue and maybe it is an issue for you. I find I can outshoot my CZ's with my Sigs and I shoot my CZ's VERY well. Not an issue for me. I'll not be getting rid of my CZ's but the Sigs have also found a home.
Sig will upgrade any existing P320 on their dime if the owner cares to send it in. ALL new production guns have the upgrade in place. The drop safety issue is not an issue any more.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 07:25:24 AM by SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM »

Offline RSR

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2018, 04:28:22 AM »
I disagree on the bore axis being a myth...

AFAIK, they only remedied the issue in the military guns that have the safety...  Otherwise, it's still a crapshoot -- again, afaik.
You can disagree with the bore axis issue and maybe it is an issue for you. I find I can outshoot my CZ's with my Sigs and I shoot my CZ's VERY well. Not an issue for me. I'll not be getting rid of my CZ's but the Sigs have also found a home.
Sig will upgrade any existing P320 on their dime if the owner cares to send it in. ALL new production guns have the upgrade in place. The drop safety issue is not an issue any more.

My understanding is that they just installed a lighter trigger (that is, the trigger itself weighs less so that it generates less momentum on drop -- spring vibrations on drop reduce spring tension/weaken sprigs, hence allowing firing).   None of the other changes made during the recall appear to directly affect the drop safe issue -- there is no mechanical "drop safe" block, though they did add an out of battery discharge mechanism (but that appears to be since part of the military submission, not b/c of drop safe issue w/ pre-recall p320s).

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2018, 04:32:24 AM »
I disagree on the bore axis being a myth...

AFAIK, they only remedied the issue in the military guns that have the safety...  Otherwise, it's still a crapshoot -- again, afaik.
You can disagree with the bore axis issue and maybe it is an issue for you. I find I can outshoot my CZ's with my Sigs and I shoot my CZ's VERY well. Not an issue for me. I'll not be getting rid of my CZ's but the Sigs have also found a home.
Sig will upgrade any existing P320 on their dime if the owner cares to send it in. ALL new production guns have the upgrade in place. The drop safety issue is not an issue any more.

My understanding is that they just installed a lighter trigger (that is, the trigger itself weighs less so that it generates less momentum on drop -- spring vibrations on drop reduce spring tension/weaken sprigs, hence allowing firing).   None of the other changes made during the recall appear to directly affect the drop safe issue -- there is no mechanical "drop safe" block, though they did add an out of battery discharge mechanism (but that appears to be since part of the military submission, not b/c of drop safe issue w/ pre-recall p320s).
Sig has a very good video on their website explaining in detail what is done in the upgrade and all the changes that have been made to the new production models. Not that any of this means anything to me since I will not own a striker pistol but the drop safe issue has been addressed and resolved.

Offline Ferguson191919

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2018, 11:17:20 AM »
Sig's controls all suck except the safety they use the SAO models..... if they had used that safely here I would have bought one.  Looks like my collection is staying 100% hammer fired gentlemen

Offline RSR

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Re: Sig Sauer M17 - In The Wild
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2018, 03:43:47 PM »
My understanding is that they just installed a lighter trigger (that is, the trigger itself weighs less so that it generates less momentum on drop -- spring vibrations on drop reduce spring tension/weaken sprigs, hence allowing firing).   None of the other changes made during the recall appear to directly affect the drop safe issue -- there is no mechanical "drop safe" block, though they did add an out of battery discharge mechanism (but that appears to be since part of the military submission, not b/c of drop safe issue w/ pre-recall p320s).
Sig has a very good video on their website explaining in detail what is done in the upgrade and all the changes that have been made to the new production models. Not that any of this means anything to me since I will not own a striker pistol but the drop safe issue has been addressed and resolved.

Sig's PR:
https://www.sigsauer.com/support/p320-voluntary-upgrade/


The reality -- problem may not occur in most testing, but a lighter weight (overall weight, not pull weight) trigger is the only change that directly affects the drop safe issue -- I *think* the military manual safety likely provides addition protection to troops, but I don't believe that Sig's jerry-rigged "fix" is anything but a CYA modification (truly remedying the issue would require additional modification to actively prevent rather than mitigate occurences):


Effectively, my understanding is that the P320 originate w/ LE procurement specs specifying striker fired pistols.  Sig had none, so modified the P250 (a DAO hammer mechanism) to a P320 w/ minimal changes... 

The latest reports I'm hearing on striker-fired guns failing are the FNSes -- this after many safety and reliability issues w/ the S&W M&P line as well as Glocks...  Taurus earlier had issues, but latest guns appear to have much improved fcg safety mechanisms.  Glocks, without all the modifications (and uncertain about Gen4 & Gen5s internal mechanisms) are generally safe ignoring takedown trigger pull. 
Also for really light trigger pulls -- and not an exact comparison -- but DA/SA are somewhat similar to single vs 2 stage rifle triggers...  There's only so far in one can reduce trigger pull weight before it starts to jeoporadize safety under drops or similar weapon abuse.

 

anything