Author Topic: Rapid Fire Practice  (Read 651 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Smitty79

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1156
  • So many guns, so little time
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2018, 10:09:56 PM »
Look at the IDPA web site.  Look at their numbers for a 5x5 classifier.   A Shapshooter is better than most Cops and the vast majority of bad guys.
Don't mistake my high post count for knowledge or wisdom.   I just like hearing myself type.

Offline Vinny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1078
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2018, 11:08:50 PM »
Look at the IDPA web site.  Look at their numbers for a 5x5 classifier.   A Sharpshooter is better than most Cops and the vast majority of bad guys.

That's interesting you should say that. Two weeks ago the County Sheriff joined our weekly competition. He was a good sport to join in.
Most of us including myself, out-shot his time and accuracy through the stage. To be fair though, it's just one facet of his job, as he has a lot more to be concerned about. And it's not getting any easier.
"Without Fear, there can be no Courage"
"Carpe Diem"

Offline Jiva

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 347
  • I came for the pistols and stayed for the rifles
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2018, 04:40:40 PM »
Look at the IDPA web site.  Look at their numbers for a 5x5 classifier.   A Shapshooter is better than most Cops and the vast majority of bad guys.

Every time I introduce someone to pistol shooting they always say the same thing, “it looks a hell of a lot easier than it is”, especially when we do a classifier or match. I used to feel bad about not progressing past sharpshooter, but it is pretty solid even compared to some folks whose jobs include shooting as part of their required skill set.

Lately I haven’t practiced pistol beyond 15 yrds, and mostly just quick draw, moving, 3-7 yard scenarios. I still like coming up with my own versions of the Collateral drill - good times  :D
75 P-01 Compact 99041
75 D PCR Compact
75 SP-01 Tactical 9mm
612 HD
452 2E ZKM Lux .22LR
452 2E American .22LR
452 2E ZKM Varmint .22LR

Offline recoilguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1438
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2018, 05:09:55 PM »
I have shot many speed drills and wind up not liking most of them.
Because I like things I am good at. My favorite drill is a simple drill I learned a couple years ago
that incorporates distance speed and moving from tatget to target.
 I apologize I do not have a video or link so I will describe it.

Standing hands at side gun loaded in holster toes on a fault line infront of you.

3 silhouette targets in front of you. One at 3 yards directly in front of where you are standing, one at 10 yards to the right of the center one and one at 15 yards to the left.
 on signal draw and fire 2 as fast as you can to the right, transition 2 to the center target and then 2 to the left target, reload and go 2 2 2 left to right. if you can do all A you are doing good if you can do it in 8 seconds you are better then I have ever been. The 2 far ones are usually a bit slower then the 2 shots you can get on the 3 yard target which really adds some fun to this thing. My typical run goes like this Beep  bang...Bang...Bangbang..Bang….bang click swoosh snap .Bang....bang...bangbang...bang...bang ….dang 10.73 with 2 charlies I gotta improve.

reload I'm going again

RCG
........Its that you shoot!

Offline scroadkill

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2018, 05:19:33 PM »
when we do practice we start with hands relaxed, draw and put 1 round on target
5-8 strings and drop worst
then  DRAW 1 RELOAD 1 RELOAD 1  (3 strings drop worst)
DRAW2 RELOAD 2 RELOAD 2 (3 strings drop worst)

El Presidente  - 1 string - mulligan = $5
Three metric targets, 1 yard apart, 10 yards out
loaded and holstered,  hands above shoulders,  facing away
2 2 2 reload 2 2 2  - all alpha -  < 7.5 seconds

Bill Drill  - 1 string - mulligan = $5
facing target - 7 yards , loaded and holstered, on beep put 6 rounds in A zone in 2 seconds.

AND THE ENOS transition DRILL
3 METRIC TARGETS 1 yard apart, 10 yards out
DRAW T1 T2 T3 T1 T2 T3 T1 T2 T3
ALL ALPHA, 5 SECONDS

Offline Vinny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1078
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2018, 05:45:52 PM »
when we do practice we start with hands relaxed, draw and put 1 round on target
5-8 strings and drop worst
then  DRAW 1 RELOAD 1 RELOAD 1  (3 strings drop worst)
DRAW2 RELOAD 2 RELOAD 2 (3 strings drop worst)

El Presidente  - 1 string - mulligan = $5
Three metric targets, 1 yard apart, 10 yards out
loaded and holstered,  hands above shoulders,  facing away
2 2 2 reload 2 2 2  - all alpha -  < 7.5 seconds

Bill Drill  - 1 string - mulligan = $5
facing target - 7 yards , loaded and holstered, on beep put 6 rounds in A zone in 2 seconds.

AND THE ENOS transition DRILL
3 METRIC TARGETS 1 yard apart, 10 yards out
DRAW T1 T2 T3 T1 T2 T3 T1 T2 T3
ALL ALPHA, 5 SECONDS
Hmmmm; Guess I got some work to do when I return to Fla and can practice outdoors.  :D
"Without Fear, there can be no Courage"
"Carpe Diem"

Offline Froggy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
    • Shooting in the Czech Republic
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2018, 08:42:30 AM »
What is an acceptable grouping size for rapid fire and double tap drills, while  practicing at 5, 7, and 10 yards?

If you are referring to defense shooting, the rational behind "Double tapping" is maximising your chances of hitting your intended target's vital organs. This is best achieved by shooting a spread the size of your hand on the "vital mass/torso" simultaneously or as quickly as possible in order to incapacitate the threat .
A "successful" double tap is therefore the equation of accuracy (with the torso a hand apart), speed and distance .

- If your 2 shots are very tightly grouped you missed the point as you will have hit twice at the part of the body, at worst missing organs, at best the same, and therefore might have missed a vital one, ie : you should have been shooting faster.
- If you come out of the torso, you failed, have been shooting too fast and need to slow a little to recover gun control & accuracy.

As a general rule, assuming you can shoot accurately at a "normal" pace, it will, therefore,  be the distance that will dictate the rate of your firing in order to place your 2 shoots.
0>3 meters use the frame of your pistol to aim / shoot as fast as poss ,
3>7 meters aim with the frame & front sight, at tad slower,
7>above, both front & back sight, 2 distinct shots,

 I hope the above makes sense to you ??



Offline Practical Shooter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • Life's just too short
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2018, 08:45:04 PM »


- If your 2 shots are very tightly grouped you missed the point as you will have hit twice at the part of the body, at worst missing organs, at best the same, and therefore might have missed a vital one, ie : you should have been shooting faster.


Very good points Froggy, but I suspect, as good as one person can shoot very fast with very tight groups during training, will certainly open their groups during a real life altercation, as body movement and adrenaline must play into that person's somewhat loss of some accuracy, and then, we can avoid hitting the same area twice.
So training for tight groups should still be a good goal.

Offline 1SOW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15000
  • GO GREEN - Recycle 9MM
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2018, 09:48:30 PM »
Question to consider when discussing protection from a threat:  When do you stop shooting a known Immediate threat to your or your loved ones' lives?

One carefully placed shot?  A Double tap?  When do you stop pulling the trigger?  Practice for the need,  not a given numbers of shots.   What is the immediate need?

JMHO. If you can't avoid, or escape from a threat,  shoot to "eliminate the threat".

Offline MadDuner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2018, 12:22:43 AM »
If the threat is still advancing on me - I am still shooting.

Offline Smitty79

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1156
  • So many guns, so little time
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2018, 07:45:50 PM »
If the threat is still advancing on me - I am still shooting.

When do you shift from upper center of mass to head?
Don't mistake my high post count for knowledge or wisdom.   I just like hearing myself type.

Offline Practical Shooter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • Life's just too short
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2018, 09:04:19 PM »
Question to consider when discussing protection from a threat:  When do you stop shooting a known Immediate threat to your or your loved ones' lives?

One carefully placed shot?  A Double tap?  When do you stop pulling the trigger?  Practice for the need,  not a given numbers of shots.   What is the immediate need?

JMHO. If you can't avoid, or escape from a threat,  shoot to "eliminate the threat".

I think it is safe to keep on shooting until "we feel" the treat is down for good. Any premature stop would be taking a chance.

Offline Practical Shooter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • Life's just too short
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2018, 09:08:20 PM »
If the threat is still advancing on me - I am still shooting.

When do you shift from upper center of mass to head?

I don't think head shots are an option. It's too easy to miss. Only movies will depict accurate head shots, but in all reality, shooting Zombie's heads is a lot harder than it seams  8) better use a Japanese sword  O0

Offline MadDuner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
Re: Rapid Fire Practice
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2018, 10:06:55 PM »
If the threat is still advancing on me - I am still shooting.

When do you shift from upper center of mass to head?

If the guy is still advancing and close enough for you to feel confident in the shot - that would be the time. 

Just like martial arts training teaches you 6-strikes in succession instead of just a punch... The idea is to have enough muscle memory ingrained to allow you to complete the task at hand without having to stop and think what to do.

Don't think. Do.
He who hesitates also mediates in the horizontal.